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This is my firstgo at attaching Pictures so please forgive me if it fails. This is as most of you know an illustration of the wd 16h tool kit. Item 20 is specified as 1/8" x 1/4" Box spanner.

Has anyone of you ever seen this spanner and do you now wat it is for ?

Regards

Arne

Attachments toolkit2-pdf
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That's a good question, Arne and not one that is easy to answer. Unfortunately, although the drawing and description appeared in the 1943 WD 'Maintenance and Instruction Manual', the Spare Parts lists were never updated and it is not really clear if these were supplied by Norton or added by the War Department to complete the 'Equipment to Scale'.

I have a June 1940 dated WD list of tools and equipment for contract C6127 which states:

"As Issued" - "Box Spanner, D.E. 1/8in x 3/16in" (D.E. is Double-Ended)

and then goes on to state:

"For Replacement, Demand as Under" - "Spanner, Box, D.E. 1/8in x 3/16in x 7 1/2in long.

That this spanner should be 1/8" x 3/16" is far more logical as it is usual for the opposite ends of a box spanner to be one size different and the drawing in the M&I manual seems to show this - if one end is 1/8" Whitworth and the other end 1/4" then it should look much larger than the tube diameter.

It would also seem a little odd to include a further 1/4" Whit box spanner in the kit as there is already the 1/4" box captioned as "wheel nut spanner" in the M&I list.

The only use that I know of for the 1/8" hexagon is the screw on the carburetter stub clamp and the use of such a long tool for this seems a little unnecessary. However, if it was included for the 3/16" end then it does indeed come in handy for the mudguard and stay nuts, particularly the top bridge nut on the front mudguard which is otherwise quite inaccessible with an open-ender.

I wonder if the caption writer for this manual mis-read either a more complete list or the tool itself with dual BSW / BSF sizes and noted the 1/4" BSF size which is actually 3/16" BS Whit.

Even 1/8" x 3/16" Whit box spanners are quite difficult to find in 7 1/2" although 7" long are a little more common. Most have been used as drifts and are easily damaged. I have only ever found one 7 1/2" x 1/8"W x 3/16"W - that was at Beaulieu which is really the only place that I know where tools as odd as this turn up regularly.

The photo attached shows a 1/8" x 3/16" with the 6 1/2" tommy bar and, for comparison, a 1/4" box next to the 3/16" hexagon - I can't really see how the M&I manual drawing could have 1/4" at one end.

Attachments img_1078-jpg
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Richard

Thank you very much for an answer wichwas much more than I had hoped for.

After all tool kits are quite an interresting subject, dont you think ?

I think Your conclusions are spot on, but may I ask:

What manufacture is Your spanner and are the holes large enough for the tommy bar ?

I have one of APOLLO brand, but the holes will only fit a 1/4" Tbar.

Also I am dying to ask: Do you have a original tool roll and tool bag (item 1 and 3) ?

Regards

Arne

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Arne, my apologies for overlooking your reply.

I'm rather fascinated by the contents of the Norton toolkits, not least because of the R.T. Shelley / Abingdon-King-Dick / Mansell connections.

The 7 1/2" spanner in the photograph is an Apollo. Accles & Pollock (Apollo) pretty much invented the box spanner and were probably the major UK manufacturer at the time. The 5/16" tommy bar is a fairly close fit but does pass through. Is it possible that yours has been used to hammer something and that the holes have closed up ? I'd be inclined to run a 5/16" drill through it.

I have an NOS WD issue tool bag. It is made of 'Rexine' leathercloth and has hardened. In WD literature it is referred to as a belt bag and it has loops on the back but I've never seen any evidence of it being used like that.

I've never seen a tool roll that could be confirmed as original Norton. The list refers to it as 'leather' but I'm not sure if it may also have been 'Rexine'. It is clear that the military replaced them with a standard canvas / webbing roll if they became damaged.

Completing a toolkit is always a work in progress with the possibility to improve and the kit appears to have evolved over time so there is no one 'right' or 'wrong' way to do it, rather there are 'possible' and 'impossible' items.

If you send me an e-mail at the WD Models address on the Tech Advice section, I'll send you some more detail through. It's difficult to post larger images here.

Attachments img_0741-2-jpg
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Richard

No apolgies needed, as you can see I'm not too clever myself !

I am veryfascinated by the Toolkit myself, and I think now is the time for some confessions...

My bike is a 1948 model 30 wich I by pure luck came by and was allowed to buy in 2007. At the time I was working on a North sea installation and had for a time far too much free time on my hands.

Wery good for searching the net for spare parts, not all that good for my bank Balance....

Apart from that, I spent my days reading the Norton parts list for 1948, and was well underway to earning it by hart, very useful !

it was during his time that I got interested in the toolkit.

I found very little in the way of illustrations, so the 16H literature seemed a sensible starting point (spares list and maint. manual)

I'm very sorry i have misled you into believing that I have a 16H

Hopefully we can continue toolkit discussions after this ?

Some time ago I got a tool roll of e-bay wich I think must be from a postwar ES2 It is not complete, but what is left is is in nearly "as Nnew" condition, and the toolroll itself very Nice. this is made up from quite fine canvas with leather trimmings and looks very much like the 16H tool roll.

I have tried to contact you on the Tech Advice section, but something is not right wit my computer setup, so it will not work.

Perhaps if you sent me a mail to get it started ?

arne.eftestol@gmail.com

Regards

Arne

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Arne, I just assumed a 16H. I do of course realise that some people have to make do with more complicated Nortons !

I have no special knowledge of the OHC toolkits and the latest parts list that I have is for 1946 which had a side and overhead valve range only.

Unfortunately, Norton completely revised their part number system for 1946 so it is impossible in many cases to know if parts altered. That said, the descriptions seem pretty much the same as the pre-war civilian items (those lists also had unillustrated tools sections).

I think it would be reasonable to assume that all the time Norton remained part of R.T. Shelley (up until the AMC takeover ?) then the tools would have been substantially the same Shelley / Abingdon items...possibly...:)

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Richard

Well, yes, my fault really I led you on to think I was talking 16H.

Sorry !

Complicated ? Not a bit ! just a bigger tank and a cambox designed to leak oil...

On the other hand I got your e-mail and are now trying to compose a reasonably intelligent response.

Regards

Arne

 


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