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Pazon or Boyer Bransden electronic ignition?

Submitted by nicholas_clarke on Sun, 23/09/2018
Forums
Electrical

I'm considering electronic ignition and a 12v conversion for my Navigator. I have looked at both the Pazon and Boyer Bransden systems and both look very similar apart from the price and the Pazon seems to continue working at a lower voltage. Trawling back over past discussions there seems to be praise and criticism for both. Is the Pazon system worth the extra cost? Any advice would be appreciated!

Nick

Submitted by patrick_mullen on Sun, 23/09/2018

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Hello Nick,

I am not passing any opinion re either of these two systems as I have no practical experience of current models. But I did the same as you and checked out their respective websites and came to the conclusion that their specs seemed to be practically identical. The thing I did notice was that both of them quoted the same lower working voltage (10V) yet several people have said the Pazon continued working at lower voltage. So like you I am interested in hearing the opinions from users.

Patrick.

Submitted by alan_osborn on Sun, 23/09/2018

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The Boyer Bransden system I have fitted/sold in the past have a small issue in that the pickup rotor has to be set back a little or it fouls the rear of the pickup plate. (spacing the pick up plate forward on washers is naf) I do not know if the Pazon system gets round this issue if indeed it has the issue in the first place. Apart from that using the original Wipac 6V coils is an advantage for both systems.

There is details of a timing aid on my web site and I have details of a symplfied (naf spell checker still) lighting-ignition switch if you need it.

Submitted by john_holmes on Wed, 26/09/2018

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The Pazon guys are ex Boyer employee's, when they copied the Boyer they fixed the over advancing of the MK3 Boyer. Then Boyer seeing the Pazon winning business fixed the over advancing of the MK3 with the introduction of the MK4 Boyer.

Submitted by dan_field on Wed, 26/09/2018

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Previously Alan Osborn wrote:

The Boyer Bransden system I have fitted/sold in the past have a small issue in that the pickup rotor has to be set back a little or it fouls the rear of the pickup plate. (spacing the pick up plate forward on washers is naf) I do not know if the Pazon system gets round this issue if indeed it has the issue in the first place. Apart from that using the original Wipac 6V coils is an advantage for both systems.

There is details of a timing aid on my web site and I have details of a symplfied (naf spell checker still) lighting-ignition switch if you need it.

I knew you wouldnât like my solution, but it works!

Submitted by paul_standeven on Wed, 26/09/2018

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What I hear is that several Boyer employees wanted to develop a whole new generation of electronic ignitions, and were not allowed to. So they set up on their own. Things like tolerating low voltage, and multiple sparks within each firing, like a trembler-coil ignition, and a more sophisticated advance method. Having created the company, they migrated to New Zealand.

Paul

Previously john_holmes wrote:

The Pazon guys are ex Boyer employee's, when they copied the Boyer they fixed the over advancing of the MK3 Boyer. Then Boyer seeing the Pazon winning business fixed the over advancing of the MK3 with the introduction of the MK4 Boyer.

Submitted by dan_field on Thu, 27/09/2018

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Previously paul_standeven wrote:

What I hear is that several Boyer employees wanted to develop a whole new generation of electronic ignitions, and were not allowed to. So they set up on their own. Things like tolerating low voltage, and multiple sparks within each firing, like a trembler-coil ignition, and a more sophisticated advance method. Having created the company, they migrated to New Zealand.

Paul

Do they come back every summer?! ðð

Submitted by john_holmes on Thu, 27/09/2018

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'multiple sparks within each firing'

Does not sound like a Pazon, sounds like the power arc Old Britts sell which has been an issue as it cannot be strobed because of the multiple sparks.

Submitted by nicholas_clarke on Sat, 20/10/2018

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Final update, I chose the Pazon 12v system - the rotor had plenty of clearance from the sensor back plate, it was very easy to wire up, fit and time, both statically and using a strobe, started first kick and has transformed how the bike runs and the performance so well worth the investment! My only minor criticism is the four screw / pillar mounting holes in the composite backing plate needed opening out about 25" thou with a modelling file to fit perfectly.

Submitted by john_dunn1 on Sat, 20/10/2018

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Whats the fuse rating for the 12v Pazon system. Wheres the best position for a inline fuse. Purchased my wiring loom about five years ago. Would like to use the existing switch. Can the wiring and switch handle 12v.

Thanks

John.

Submitted by nicholas_clarke on Sun, 21/10/2018

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Hi John,

I can recommend Alan Osborn's excellent advice on converting Norton Lightweight twins to 12v and electronic ignition - to be found on his website www.aoservices.co.uk or phone 01953 884681. The light and ignition switches are up to the job and after studying the Norton wiring diagram and those supplied by Pazon and Alan for the AReg1 voltage regulator / rectifier and capacitor which he supplied I found it pretty straight forward adapting the existing 6v wiring harness using a 25 amp fuse on the negative wire to the battery. I hope that helps!

Nick

Submitted by david_cooper on Sun, 21/10/2018

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I can't see the point of multiple sparks. If they are at the same plug the flame front will have left the plug after the first spark so there will be nothing for a second spark to ignite..surely?

Submitted by patrick_mullen on Sun, 21/10/2018

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Previously David Cooper wrote:

I can't see the point of multiple sparks. If they are at the same plug the flame front will have left the plug after the first spark so there will be nothing for a second spark to ignite..surely?

I think that you are correct and that a lot of "advertising spiel" is used to sell certain products. A long time ago -about 15 or 16 years ago- we were seriously into racing and as such regularly set-up our classic race car on a rolling road. Out of curiosity we did back to back power runs using (1) the standard points distributor with a sports coil/plugs and (2)an electronic ignition with matching coil/plugs. Both systems were well tweaked to give optimum results; the end result give virtually identical power figures. (within the normal margin of error).

The electronic system once set-up though probably stays "in-tune" better.

Patrick.

Submitted by alan_osborn on Sun, 21/10/2018

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Previously john_dunn1 wrote:

Whats the fuse rating for the 12v Pazon system. Wheres the best position for a inline fuse. Purchased my wiring loom about five years ago. Would like to use the existing switch. Can the wiring and switch handle 12v.

Thanks

John.

You could try a 10A fuse on the Pazon (or BB) ignition but there is little point, A) the less connectors/connections you make on British bikes the better. B) The fuse is quite slow compared to the electronics you might be trying to protect. Fuses are there to stop the high energy turning into 'smoke and flames' and as such one in the main battery feed does this.

As regards the switches on a lightweight handling 12V-no problem at all, we should be worrying about the current flowing but as that is reduced on 12V (as opposed to 6V) then the switches have an easier time. British weather-tarnishing-rust, corrosion (bodging and bits of tape) are your real issues.

Submitted by gerardo_zamparuto on Sun, 21/10/2018

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Anteriormente Nick Clarke escribiÃ?:

ActualizaciÃ?n final, elegà el sistema Pazon 12v: el rotor tenÃa mucho espacio libre con respecto a la placa posterior del sensor, fue muy fÃ?cil de cablear, ajustar y tiempo, tanto estÃ?ticamente como con un estroboscÃ?pico, comenzÃ? la primera patada y ha transformado la forma en que la bicicleta Corre y el rendimiento vale la pena la inversiÃ?n! Mi Ã?nica crÃtica menor es que los cuatro orificios de montaje de tornillo / pilar en la placa de soporte de material compuesto necesitaban abrirse unos 25 ", con un archivo de modelado para ajustarse perfectamente.

Submitted by gerardo_zamparuto on Sun, 21/10/2018

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Tengo un encendido (magneto y dinamo) Powerdynamo de 12 v 60 w en mi Norton 16h de 1947, reemplaza al Lucas.(actualmente lo fabrica la empresa VAPE en Republica checa) funciona muy bien.

Saludos para todos.

Attachments magneto-2-jpg

Submitted by edward_solway on Sat, 01/12/2018

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Previously Alan Osborn wrote:

The Boyer Bransden system I have fitted/sold in the past have a small issue in that the pickup rotor has to be set back a little or it fouls the rear of the pickup plate. (spacing the pick up plate forward on washers is naf) I do not know if the Pazon system gets round this issue if indeed it has the issue in the first place. Apart from that using the original Wipac 6V coils is an advantage for both systems.

There is details of a timing aid on my web site and I have details of a symplfied (naf spell checker still) lighting-ignition switch if you need it.

Hello Alan,

As the auto advance unit is badly worn on my 1965 Jubilee I am considering electronic ignition. (can't find a replacement anywhere) You say they both work OK with the 6v coils. Is this right because with my limited funds it would save me the cost of converting to 12 volts. Your help would be most appreciated.

Regards Chris.

Submitted by alan_osborn on Sun, 02/12/2018

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When converting to electronic ignition-Jubilee or Navigator, it is very advisable to use the original Wipac 6V coils as they fit nicely under the tank and they seem to last for ever. The electronic ignition is 12V and requires 2 off 6V ignition coils as they are in series and the system runs 'wasted spark'. So you will need to convert to 12V. at the same time.

All the fine details of this are on my web site.

Submitted by edward_solway on Tue, 04/12/2018

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Thanks for the info Alan. Looks like I will convert to 12v after all. I will at least save the cost of buying 12v coils.

Kind regards Chris.

 

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