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Re: Help with frame numbers please?

Submitted by simon_amos on Sun, 28/08/2011
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I was given "1953 Norton ES2" in boxes engine was on the frame. I since have removed the engine. I am going to send in for the history thanks to this gr8 site. however could someoone please clear somethings up for me before I get the records on this frame. File was to big for photo but here is a link.

photostream

thanks for any help.

Dale

Submitted by simon_amos on Mon, 29/08/2011

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Thank you Svein. Can you or some one explain what Frame and engine numbers I need to send in to get the history of the bike? I am confident the engine and frame don't match so they will send me info on the frame. which is/will be good to have and know. The numbers on the gas tank gusset is a large 12over58084 then between them going opposite way is a N4 14 01 which are much smaller then the 12 58084.

On the headstock there is an A one way and then the opposite way a 4 then on the upper tube is there is a 54010

Are these the Frame numbers?

I know very very little in regards to Motorcycles, But will enjoy seeing what I can bring to life. Thanks again Svein.

Submitted by richard_payne on Mon, 29/08/2011

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There is only one 'frame number' for the purposes of identification and that is the larger stamped number.

These brazed-lug frames have a casting part number on pretty well every cast lug as well. There is no record of these and they can vary both in numbers and form as patterns wore out and were replaced.

If the engine and frame started out belonging to different types and years then in some countries, you may have difficulty obtaining a registration if there is no proof that it has ever been registered before in that form

Submitted by simon_amos on Tue, 30/08/2011

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Previously wrote:

There is only one 'frame number' for the purposes of identification and that is the larger stamped number.

These brazed-lug frames have a casting part number on pretty well every cast lug as well. There is no record of these and they can vary both in numbers and form as patterns wore out and were replaced.

If the engine and frame started out belonging to different types and years then in some countries, you may have difficulty obtaining a registration if there is no proof that it has ever been registered before in that form

All the numbers stated are stamped. the casting numbers are raised aren't they?

Submitted by john_whiting on Tue, 30/08/2011

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Dale, 12/58084 is the official frame number, but there should be a prefix before the 12, for instance H or J which indicates the year, but the consecutive number also fixes the year.The engine would have had the same number.The other numbers may be factory numbers to track the frame, these are listed on the job card, which you will get when you pays your money for the records.The frame number/ engine number was stamped on at the last moment as it were, because then the bike was subject to payment of purchase tax to the Inland Revenue by someone, and had to be accounted for to the tax men.Bikes used for factory hacks on trade plates wernt stamped, and the tax didnt have to be paid.Your frame appears to be in good nick, they often have repair welds on the swing arm brackets, sometimes with large reinforcements added. Regards John.

Submitted by simon_amos on Tue, 30/08/2011

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Thank you all for the replies, I am very thankful for all the great info you all have shared. I am not sure what to do with the bike. should I try to find a 500 twin to make it a model 7 for the frame or just put it together with the single that came with it? I am leaning in the way of putting it together with the engine that came with it and make it an ES2 on a model 7 frame. Hope that is possible with out to much mucking around. Thanks again and I hope to not wear out me welcome by asking to many ignorant questions.

Submitted by john_whiting on Wed, 31/08/2011

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Dale, do you think 12 and H2 look similar, its a side valve number, but a single. I m probably not allowed to mention it here, but I have a grinder and stamps and if it were mine it would have matching numbers. Regards John.

Submitted by simon_amos on Wed, 31/08/2011

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I had a look and I don't think so. I will have a closer look over the weekend. Thank you very much John for all the time looking into this for me. I am looking forward to putting it all together and seeing the results come to life. So the raised numbers are the numbers that were in the mold for that specific part? and the stamped numbers reflect the frame and engine numbers as well as the way it traveled through the process of being made at the factory?

Submitted by Xanna_jeannett… on Thu, 01/09/2011

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Previously wrote:

I was given "1953 Norton ES2" in boxes engine was on the frame. I since have removed the engine. I am going to send in for the history thanks to this gr8 site. however could someoone please clear somethings up for me before I get the records on this frame. File was to big for photo but here is a link.

photostream

thanks for any help.

Dale

Hello Dale Having looked at your photo the frame number to me looks like a model 7 twin from 1954 But its missing the J for the year, But I can tell the year by the numbers ,I have looked at my numbers, I have on Norton Factory records, Your Numbers Indicate ,That this Frame was for a model 7 ,hope this helps

Submitted by john_whiting on Thu, 01/09/2011

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Dale, I wasnt suggesting your frame was from a sidevalve, I dont think you could get a swingarm s/v.I was suggesting a possible creative alteration. You have to be careful now , you dont just need to get it past a MOT inspector, the DVLC computer has probably amassed a great deal of Norton knowlege. Matching frame number with your single motor is probably safest,but get some advice from a local old bike enthusiast, the type with a heap of old bikes and bits. Regards John.

 


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