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Spanner sizes 1956 Dominator

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Feel a bit stupid asking this question. But is there a definitive  list of spanner sizes?

I took the magneto off and the timing chains and felt like every time I picked a spanner up it didnt fit.

Craig

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Its mostly whitworth .  What we need is a wall chart like the old lube chart with arrows pointing to all the nuts with the size on the chart !!

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You shouldn't be picking up the wrong spanner from your WW/BS set, all that often.   The next bigger size does look bigger.

I have a bundle of old spanners but its not making any sense AF W BS.

3/8 W is the same as 7/16 BS ? 

I just want a list so I can sort them out. It might be controversial but the Metric system is so much better.

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One of the reasons not to post pictures is in case of adverse comments!  The U clip on the camshaft drive chain is not standard...if you don't have a continuous chain I would at least lockwire the U clip.  The reason he put a clip is probably because you have to remove all the sprockets at the same time to get continous chains off.

As Robert says - Whitworth sizes are used pretty much everywhere.  There are 3/8" square drive rails of socket available quite cheaply.  1/2" drive sockets are usually too big.
If you are in UK, autojumbles are the cheapest source of open end and ring spanners - usually £1 each

Comments are welcome, even adverse ones. This is not my first rodeo when it comes to forums and all information is useful to me.

My uncle worked on the bike he was a far better bricklayer than a mechanic just look how he connected this oil line. So if I miss something I want it pointed out.

 

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Yes, BS is the same as WW, but one size smaller hex for the same stud diameter.  There's little need to memorise them.  Your eye tells you which tool fits.

If you feel it's worthwhile complaining about old conventions and standards on an old bike, carry on.

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I saw the oil junction but assumed it was work in progress ! . The engine is pretty dirty inside , I would lean it over and brush petrol round.

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Metric sizes are just a different set of standards.  Whitworth dimension spanners and associated threads were used on nearly all thread standards in UK before roughly 1970.  They threads are coarse threads, much used for castings, especially in alloy.
Most of the cycle parts used Cycle threads mostly 26tpi.  The motorcycle industry grew out of the bicycle industry.  They are fine and strong, which is ideal for thin materials and small fasteners.  "Cycle' and 'Whitworth" use the same spanner sizes.  The sizes stamped on Whitworth spanners relate to the shank size of the thread. The coarse size of Whitworth threads have a head size one step up from the head on fiber threads.
Norton often used reduced size heads, especially where space is limited but height is not.  So some barrel to crankcase nuts are under size diameter but taller than usual.
Metric ones are perhaps more convenient but still have coarse and fine standards.  Arguably they are not such a refined engineering solution.
Electrical partd need much smaller threads.  BA sizes are normal.  These are still current but becoming superseded by non standardised miniature Metric screws in the mass of small imported Chinese stuff.  BA is very good engineering solution because each successive size is exactly the same as the next, except multiplied up in the same proportion.  So there is a regular progression instead of 1mm jumps, which become useless at small sizes.
Metric misses out M7!  It is used in production (cars, motorcycles etc) but you won't find it in shops.  Very annoying jump from M6 to M8

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However, M7 fasteners are available from specialist suppliers - although I suspect the original poster is from the USA where sourcing them may be difficult. Craig may also have trouble locating the right spanners as BSW/BSF/Cycle were not widely used over there as they had their own UNC/UNF standard.

Hi Ian,

I am in the UK so getting spanners is no issue. My father was a fitter for BP for many years and I have his full collection I just didn't understand what I was looking at as I have never used them. Tonight I will go out the garage and have a good sort out

Craig 

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For your sorting out of spanners I would suggest removing the AF as you shouldn't have any of these on your machine. 
As mentioned above, these weren't used until the late 1960's,  my 1968 Mercury has WW/BSF in most places but the front forks are AF!  This means I have to carry more spanners in the small Slimline tool tray.

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Thank you Gentlemen,

This is just the sort of information I was looking for. Please ignore my tongue in cheek stab at the old system.

I will be having a good clean out of the case as I go along. The oil pipes themselves were rotten and fell apart in my hands and then I saw the connection to the case and it was no surprise she was throwing oil out all over the ramp. 

Craig

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A few Red Herrings have been thrown in here.  The question was regarding spanner sizes, so thread forms aren't really relevant. Nor are mentions of UNF and UNC, regardless of which part of the world you hail from! They were not used on 1956 bikes.

It's worth mentioning that virtually all the standard WW/BSF and BA spanners are still available new.  I bought a set of small size BA open-end spanners and box spanners off eBay,  just in case!  Back in the day, I used to be proud of the fact that I carried all the spanners needed to dismantle my bike (a 1955, then a 1959 Dommie) in the tool tray!  With the exception of the outer chaincase and sump nuts.
 

Thank you Lionel,

I probably own every size spanner just need to sort them. The sump nut surprised me by the size of the thing. Looking at it there seems to be a small filter in the nut itself. 

I also like to carry the tools I need to get me home if the worse happens. 

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15 mm and 18mm are a reasonable fit on BS/WW hexagons.  Sometimes 12 mm.

It gets complicated when you buy new BS or Cycle fasteners and find they're made from metric hex stock.

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I still have not found the spanner size for the oil union nuts on the prewar 16H.  Perhaps pipe threads and pipe union nuts had their own sizes?

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… that mugging up on thread standards is wholly redundant, even though as pointed out the initial query was about spanner sizes.

For one thing, it's important to understand why that apparently correct nut/bolt will start but then lock up after a turn or so — the answer is that it may have a more or less correct diameter but the pitch and/or thread form is wrong.

In particular, there are some well-known gotchas relating to hydraulic fittings.

A good place to start is with the relevant Wikipedia pages: general information about screw threads is here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screw_thread and there are links to the pages on all the major systems.

For real thread completists I recommend https://www.gewinde-normen.de/en/index.html where you will find some very odd standards indeed.

 

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... a copy of Machinery's screw thread book from the mid 50s which has everything anyone could possibly want to know (and more!) about screw threads. These still come up for sale occasionally - there's one on ebay for £10 at the moment.

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Come on now, this isn't Facebook or x, so please be civil!
Peter is speaking as a knowledgeable Engineer.
Why use something that will fit "ok" when you can fit something that fits correctly?
We're often heard complaining about parts that need fettling to fit, so don't give the suppliers the ammo to say "It's ok, the buyer will make it fit so we don't need to worry".
ok, an M8 nut on a 3/16" stud isn't likely to be life threatening,  but it just might be enough to cause that unexpected breakdown somewhere.
If the correct fittings are available, why not use them!

Civil regards to all,
George 

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The "correct" nut cost £2.50 each and persistently came loose and spun off.  The "incorrect" nut is cheap and fits snugly and stays in place.  I know which is better, and make no apology.
Furthermore: 'Radco' (Vintage Motorcycle Workshop) notes other examples of interchangeable threads.  M6 is for all practical purposes interchangeable with 'O' BA.  And there are others.  Especially early metric threads, where French, Swiss and Germans has different versions at one time.

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Your M5 nut will be deformed internally so giving a 'locknut effect' 
M6 and OBA interchangable... One might fit on the other but the thread angle is miles different (60 degrees as against 47.5 degrees) causing point contact between the M6 nut and the OBA stud (or vice versa)  This will lead to thread deformation in which ever is the softer material. Ever got a stainless nut stuck on a stainless bolt, even when they are the same thread? (stainless steel nuts and bolts should always be lubricated when assembled together, otherwise galling will take place)
Wrong nuts on wrong bolts will make this worse. 
Its a bit like saying any 18" tyre will fit on any 18" wheel. Yes it might fit but it will be wrong and potentially fail.
Your 'Radco' notes should be treated with a good dose of suspicion as they are clearly quoting rubbish and the danger is that people now believe all what they read. 
 

You sound like you've never fixed anything by the roadside.  I'm not suggesting you should use the wrong fixing screws on an aircraft cockpit window.  I've no idea of the relevance of stainless steel galling effects.
You ought to get your own copy of Radco.  You would be so shocked you'll probably stick to 21st C machines.
I didn't intend to be here to pick a fight.  I merely pointed out that thread tables are potentially useful and knowledge of them might get you back on the road rather than leave it in the shed.  One day you might even have to turn a new nut or bolt thread on the lathe, and you'll certainly need thread tables then.  And they might well show you if you can start by picking an existing bolt to give your material.  So; you can cut the 9/32 BSF brake rod thread inside the 1/4" BSF wing nut which was the only size in the NOC shop (or anywhere else) when I needed one.  I could instead have abandoned the bike since no original has been made for over 80 years.

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... apdf version online somewhere but can't remember where. For the purists, I already have a (hardcover) original but the pdf version is useful to print out the odd page.

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this'll (all) be the reason very few of my dads old AF and imperial set don't fit some then!.

Small adjustable spanners are the future here :)

 



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