Frame number authentication

Hi all, now I'm looking to do another project and have potentially found a frame how do I go about checking to see if it hasn't been stolen at some point in time. I don't want to go down the route of putting it all together only to find out at the time of getting an aged related number that it's had a dodgy past. The frame I'm looking at has a number but no V5. TIA Mark

Hello mark thats David Catton's Department log books and frame numbers if they be over stamped then you start worrying as this a clear sign of this be doctored at some time , I have all the Norton Bracebridge street Stamp Punches the Original ones they did the work of stamping all Norton frames and engines too ,and there is something that may interest some of you out there the first engine to be fitted in a featherbed frame ,was not a Manx engine , Its was a four cylinder engine from a Fiat 600 car fitted to a Douglas 600 gear box and the lot was fitted in line with the frame, the rear dampers were from a Citron car the forks were home made, so was the tank and seat , it was raced round Belfast in the Hutchinson 100 he won by a mile there was just nothing out there that could handle like it, the rest is history, yours anna j dixon

Previously anna jeannette Dixon wrote:

Previously mark_savage wrote:

Hi all, now I'm looking to do another project and have potentially found a frame how do I go about checking to see if it hasn't been stolen at some point in time. I don't want to go down the route of putting it all together only to find out at the time of getting an aged related number that it's had a dodgy past. The frame I'm looking at has a number but no V5. TIA Mark

Hello mark thats David Catton's Department log books and frame numbers if they be over stamped then you start worrying as this a clear sign of this be doctored at some time , I have all the Norton Bracebridge street Stamp Punches the Original ones they did the work of stamping all Norton frames and engines too ,and there is something that may interest some of you out there the first engine to be fitted in a featherbed frame ,was not a Manx engine , Its was a four cylinder engine from a Fiat 600 car fitted to a Douglas 600 gear box and the lot was fitted in line with the frame, the rear dampers were from a Citron car the forks were home made, so was the tank and seat , it was raced round Belfast in the Hutchinson 100 he won by a mile there was just nothing out there that could handle like it, the rest is history, yours anna j dixon

I think that it is important that facts about the development of the featherbed nortonframe are correct.

It is well documented that the early McCandless frames were fitted with non-norton engines to demonstrate their versitility. There are photos of one, minus back wheel, fitted with a Sunbeam in line, shaft drive twin.

Nowhere have I seen that the Hutchinson 100 was ever held in Belfast or any other part of Ulster. In deed Richard Agnew, writing of 100 years of Ulster Motorsport mentions every event and its history but no Hutchinson 100. This was traditionally held at Silverstone during the 1950,s and briefly at Dunholme before that.

If Anna has proof of her facts then it would be valuable if she could quote them.

I think Anna might mean the Munster 100.

FWIW, I was told several years ago by a serving Met Police traffic officer, that the time stolen frame numbers are held on record is finite. That is to say, if it was stolen years ago, there will no longer be a record of it. I have asked the local Police in the past to check a number for me, this is not something that they do as a matter of course, but on that occasion, I persuaded the officer to check for me.

The situation is somewhat 'muddy' I'm afraid.

Previously alan_dawes wrote:

I think Anna might mean the Munster 100.

But the Munster 100 is and always has been held in the South of Ireland at Carrigrohane, Clonakilty and Kinsale. Belfast is a proud part of Ulster.

Quite so but I know the McCandless brothers competed in the Munster 100 and maybe Anna's geography is also a bit dodgy.

Anna,

The only Fiat 600 engine available in the late 1930's to 1950's was the Topolino side valve 4 cylinder engine which produced 16 bhp.Why on earth would Rex McCandless have used it for racing when he had the 500 GP engine developed by himself and Freddy Dixon for Ernie Lyon,s Triumph which won the 500 MGP ?

There is a good biography of Rex McCandless available called ' To make a better mouse trap'.

I think that you will find that he won the 1940 DUBLIN 100 riding his own designed special using a Triumph engine. We and Norton were very lucky that the Featherbed frame did not end up at Meriden.

Previously charles_bovington wrote:

Anna,

The only Fiat 600 engine available in the late 1930's to 1950's was the Topolino side valve 4 cylinder engine which produced 16 bhp.Why on earth would Rex McCandless have used it for racing when he had the 500 GP engine developed by himself and Freddy Dixon for Ernie Lyon,s Triumph which won the 500 MGP ?

There is a good biography of Rex McCandless available called ' To make a better mouse trap'.

I think that you will find that he won the 1940 DUBLIN 100 riding his own designed special using a Triumph engine. We and Norton were very lucky that the Featherbed frame did not end up at Meriden.

Not to worry, Triumph would have found a way to make it wobble!

Seriously, with regard to the original question, I'm afraid I don't know of any way that youcancheck, and you cannot register a bike with no documents until it is a runner with an MoT , the DVLA will not register what they call 'a pile of bits'.

I had a similar situation a few years ago (but not that many) with an 1958 Earles fork BMW R60, it wasn't stolen, but the logbook belonging to it had been used on another bike, for whatever reason, a bent frame exchange maybe, which had subsequently been written off in an accident. The DVLA refused to accept that the frame I had was the true one because they take the view that their records are always right. They insisted that I grind the original frame number (complete with stamped in BMW roundels) off completely, restamp with a 16 digit VIN which they issued, and also rivet on a VIN plate in a visible position, which then had to be inspected again. Then I could register it, but only get a Q plate.This was on a fully rebuilt, running bike, and if anyone has ever rebuilt an old BMW, I can tell you that it is very expensive, but despite this the bike was now going to be worth much, much less that the parts in it, and I had to cut my losses, and either sell the parts, or as I eventually did, find another frame with logbook, and scrap the original, (literally, with a gas axe) all in all I lost a packet on it, and was absolutely pig sick about it all.

Sorry to be so negative, but that is what happened to me, so good luck !

Cheers,

Niall

Quite so but I know the McCandless brothers competed in the Munster 100 and maybe Anna's geography is also a bit dodgy.

Well I am a female and you know what us females are like at Geography!

Anna,

The only Fiat 600 engine available in the late 1930's to 1950's was the Topolino side valve 4 cylinder engine which produced 16 bhp.Why on earth would Rex McCandless have used it for racing when he had the 500 GP engine developed by himself and Freddy Dixon for Ernie Lyon,s Triumph which won the 500 MGP ?

There is a good biography of Rex McCandless available called ' To make a better mouse trap'.

I think that you will find that he won the 1940 DUBLIN 100 riding his own designed special using a Triumph engine. We and Norton were very lucky that the Featherbed frame did not end up at Meriden.

Well You Can Thank My Great Uncle Freddie Dixon For Its One As Ernie Lyon's Bike Top end was Changed Over night with a new Triumph Type Barrel made at Park garage and spare high compression Piston's from Freddie Works Riley 11:1 compression and the carburettor needles were remove as it would no run right over the mountain coarse Freddie Clark was keeped in the dark about this as he was entertained by some nice girls and drinks the night before the race, and was seen of to his room for the night,