1956 Wideline frame question

Yes, they've, been brazed/welded like you say. The crossmember tube normally has like a a washer welded into each end. If no-one else puts one up I'll try to get a photo later.

Cheers.

Ian.

Previously richard_tool wrote:

Hi to all - looking for input on this from those more well versed than I.

I have recently rejoined after a few years absence. I purchased a 1956 Dommie 99 basket case some years ago when time and enthusiasm were both more abundant. I am finally getting back to my Commando project but have always wondered about an aspect of the Dommie frame .

The rear most lower crossmember of the frame has very rough outboard ends on the frame loops .

Can anyone tell me if this is normal ? They appear to have been welded up or brazed in some fashion.

Hopefully I will be successful in posting a picture. Thanks in advance for any help - Cheers - Richard

Hello well I should not be too concerned I would smooth this out by using a flapper wheel on an angle grinder but use it with care and I must stress use the right protective clothing and gloves and eye protection and work in a well-lit area your health and safety comesfirst and safetyof other too so put a sign that your working and keep childrenaway from any work area and cover up anything were the sparkes are going to go these are like hot mini bullets and will burn anything that will chatch fire like your skin your anna j

As no one else has posted a photo here are a couple from my 1958 Model 88 Dominator. Of course this may be different from how your 1956 should be I cannot say for certain.

and a second shot (I am not sure what I do wrong but I don't seem to be able to add more than one photo to a comment)

I'm just guessing now, but some frames were made of thinner tube (inters?) and may have needed a different method?.

My 1955 model 88 frame has the washers on the end. Featherbed frames had various changes to them over the years. I am not sure when this detail was done away with, I think 56/57.

Guesswork, but maybe someone tried to attach rearset footrests to it at some point in its life? As Anna said, just clean them up.

I would be more concerned about the several holes which have been drilled in your frame; visible in your photo. They will seriously weaken it.

Ian

It may be that the frames with the boss on the bottom rail were built specifically for sidecar use and this was an attachment strong point.

Looking along the frame there appears to be drilled holes which can not help the strength. Plus any water that gets inside this rail will soon cause it to rot through.

Phil. Mine has small holes drilled through the'washers' on the end of the cross tube which appear original, but nowhere near large enough for the size of bolt needed for sidecar attachment. There has been much discussion over their purpose since I acquired the machine 11 years ago, including at length with Peter Scatchard; who seems to have fair knowledge of the differences in Featherbed frames; some years back on the IoM during a Norton rally, but without conclusion. Maybe they were factory-drilled pilot holes to ensure correct alignment in the event that a sidecar is fitted? That would involve drilling them out oversize, and I cannot imagine the factory would think drilling their frames was a good idea, although they are in effect only washers, which are not adding to the strength of the frame. The tube alone provides the strength. Also, the exhaust pipes are in the way, which would mean using siamese pipes exiting on the right, which in itself is quite feasible. Anyway, they were subsequently done away with.

Previously ian_cordes wrote:

Phil. Mine has small holes drilled through the'washers' on the end of the cross tube which appear original, but nowhere near large enough for the size of bolt needed for sidecar attachment. There has been much discussion over their purpose since I acquired the machine 11 years ago, including at length with Peter Scatchard; who seems to have fair knowledge of the differences in Featherbed frames; some years back on the IoM during a Norton rally, but without conclusion. Maybe they were factory-drilled pilot holes to ensure correct alignment in the event that a sidecar is fitted? That would involve drilling them out oversize, and I cannot imagine the factory would think drilling their frames was a good idea, although they are in effect only washers, which are not adding to the strength of the frame. The tube alone provides the strength. Also, the exhaust pipes are in the way, which would mean using siamese pipes exiting on the right, which in itself is quite feasible. Anyway, they were subsequently done away with.

Hello my 1954 featherbed Dominator as the same frame set up and this bottom cross tube as nothing to do with a sidecar fitting has Norton Built the Model 7 for this perprose, Norton did Not reconmend fitting a side car to the featherbed frame,

yours Anna J

Previously anna jeannette Dixon wrote:

Previously ian_cordes wrote:

Phil. Mine has small holes drilled through the'washers' on the end of the cross tube which appear original, but nowhere near large enough for the size of bolt needed for sidecar attachment. There has been much discussion over their purpose since I acquired the machine 11 years ago, including at length with Peter Scatchard; who seems to have fair knowledge of the differences in Featherbed frames; some years back on the IoM during a Norton rally, but without conclusion. Maybe they were factory-drilled pilot holes to ensure correct alignment in the event that a sidecar is fitted? That would involve drilling them out oversize, and I cannot imagine the factory would think drilling their frames was a good idea, although they are in effect only washers, which are not adding to the strength of the frame. The tube alone provides the strength. Also, the exhaust pipes are in the way, which would mean using siamese pipes exiting on the right, which in itself is quite feasible. Anyway, they were subsequently done away with.

Hello my 1954 featherbed Dominator as the same frame set up and this bottom cross tube as nothing to do with a sidecar fitting has Norton Built the Model 7 for this perprose, Norton did Not reconmend fitting a side car to the featherbed frame,

yours Anna J

In fairness,although Norton were sceptical about sidecar use, they did supply featherbed bikes with sidecar trail forks and a certain Eric Pliver and Pat Wise did prodigeous things in the IOM TT with a 88 Dominator with a road going sidecar.

Previously anna jeannette Dixon wrote:

Hello my 1954 featherbed Dominator as the same frame set up and this bottom cross tube as nothing to do with a sidecar fitting has Norton Built the Model 7 for this perprose, Norton did Not reconmend fitting a side car to the featherbed frame,

yours Anna J

Yes, I know that Anna, but as Charles said, sidecars were fitted to Featherbeds, and Norton made provision for that with the forks.

Instead of saying what they are NOT for, can you tell us what they ARE for, as you are the font of all Featherbed knowledge?

Ian

Font of nothing much at all......more like! Cheers Howard

BTW my mate has an original, never been painted, rebuilt or anything much apart from routine maintenance 1957 Dommie 99, and it has that detail on the frame. I am pretty sure the last of the Widelines didn't, so maybe his was the last year before it changed?

Hi Richard,

Further to previous comments and now that I have had time to take some photos of my 1958 99, it isn't a washer but a flanged bush.

The overall length of the bush is 5/16" with o/d of 1-1/4" and bore of 5/16" with a flange length of approx. 0.1".

the face of the flange stands 3/8" off the main tube side.

The main cross member has 'saddled'ends, where it fits against the main frame tubes, then welded.

The outer tube with, theflanged boss, is also saddled and welded. there is no evidence of weld between bush and tube so it must be pre-welded on the inside prior to being welded to the main tubes.

The 5/16" bore does not go thro the main tubes.

Both sides of the frame are identical.

I can only imagine that they were added as alignment aids when the frame was in the welding jig.

As the earlier comment someone has tried to add something so it would not be detrimental to just grind them flush.

I have hopefully attached 2 photographs but have more if anyone is interested.

Regards

Dick

Obviously I don't know how to post multiple attachments.

Regards

Dick

Richard H. Thank you for the very interesting and detailed description. My assumption that it was drilled right through puzzled me, as it could let water in, causing the tube to rust from inside. You have answered that!

It does seem quite a clumsy method of alignment, given the otherwise graceful lines of the featherbed frame, with no forged lugs etc. Certainly another method was found, as this detail disappeared, if not on the last of the Widelines, certainly on Slimline frames.

Good info!

Richard T. You can now get your flap wheel out and dress it back, even drilling a 5/16" hole to a short depth for authentic appearance, maybe?

Ian