Conrod conundrum

Do they do this automatically? Most times yes but

Can they 'mis-seat'? Yes

Clue is the adusters which you say are all equal so you should have no issues there.

The clanking sound needs investigating further, could be a valve hitting the piston but you may have to tear it down to check for witness marks/clues. Did you distrub the camshaft and/or cam chain.

A newly rebored engine is stiff to turn, so stiff sometimes on singles you cannot get a kick to start them until after the first start. I favour the dry bore method which gives this stiffness but aids quick ring seating.

My bet is the rocker ball not seated in the rod top. I've heard that noise too...All four top ends should be visible with a small torch. It is as John says possible that the bottom is mis-seated in the tappet hole. I slacken it all, run back the tappet adjusters, and lift the rods and drop them and twiddle them so they definitely sit down, then tip each rocker away from the valve stem and over on to each rod before drawing the head down.

I agree with David, its done that to me too. ==bent pushrod , and it ran too.

hi howard it looks like you may have them in at the top if you have the right amount of up and down play if you tug the rocker up and down but it may be incorrect at the other end,if you lift the head again to check also make sure the followers are not damaged on the cup at the top,if its OKhave the head raised a little on wood blocks its best to put a drop of oil down the push rod holes and if you try to lift a pushrod with your finger tips you can then feel the pushrod try lift the cam follower with the suctionyou dont get this if its not in the cup thendrop down the head and check top end with a torch anduse a small bit of a wire to trapthe pushrodwith the rocker thats it sorted

all the best Lawrence

Mine was not located in the rocker ,but was wedged against the side of the head. It still managed to open the valve and when removed was bent at the end. I would remove the adjuster to allow movement and look across the head with a torch and engage the rod/rocker with a bit of bent wire. Take the fairing off!!. Too heavy anyway ,get a Givvi screen or similar.

Up to recently i had a full Avonaire on my 99. It had the correct fittings for a featherbed and could be removed in 10 minuits without taking anything else off, with the bike on its centerstand on a bit of 4x2 it would just slide off over the fully vallenced mudguard and wheel.The fairing was too heavy (for me) and spoilt the feel of the bike. A 20 year old memory says you look through the exhaust side to see the inlet rod/rocker fit.?

I don't see how you can locate the pushrods with a fairing attached. It's a guddle at the best of times. I think you will just have to bite the bullet and get the fairing off. Probably quicker in the end. For a couple of years I ran a Deauville for winter bad weather. Great fairing butaccessability for maintenance was a nightmare. Eventually I sold it.The Norton generally avoids the joy of winter rain and muckas I have a BSA with an Avon 'badger nose' handlebar fairing. Great device, even keeps your knees dry and no accessability problems.

Don't forget, if it's not going well, stop and have a cup of tea. Amazing how things tend to work after that.

What type of fairing have you got Howard?, I did think i would have to take out wheel/mudguard (a right game!) but on the Avon there is a small removable panel at the bottom front which just allows it to slide off.If it all gets too much ,half a bottle of Merlot sorts it out.

My, what a beauty! It really does look all of a piece, doesn't it?

I am a bit worried that you don't know your pushrods from your conrods, but I'm sure you do really!

Good luck with it.....

Previously howard_thompson wrote:

Oops! (Where's the red-face smilie when you need it?) Write out 500 times 'I mean pushrods, not conrods. What the hell's wong with me these days anyway?' Thanks for your kind and gentlemanly correction Ian. Thanks also for your kind words about the bike.

hi howard that sure is a smart de-lux dommi hope she run's ok iwill keep my fingers crossed.

Nice colour scheme, can't see any reason why your fairing should not slide off,if you get the angle right. Its a year or so younger than the one on mine(i do have one like yours in the rafters) Your side panels are from another (smaller) deluxe ,They should enclose the carb completely, But i think yours are more practical. Your bike has loads of non standard stuff ,as i'm sure you know ,mine has plenty of mod's but all hidden away.Been having ignition problems ,probably dud battery,14 years old Yuasa! is that a record?.My 99 clanked a bit ,piston slap,made much worse by the fairing.If the piston piston pins are a bit tight (should float hot) it will clank when cold ,If it goes away when hot ,its slap.Slap seems to start with about 41/2 thou clearance ,but I would not run with less.

Nice to see what mine must have looked like when it left the factory (No 85787) except mine was red and white. The enclosure was long gone when I bought it back in 1969 (you didn't get much for £30 even then) and these days it looks just like any scruffy well-used SS. Suits me!

Previously howard_thompson wrote:

Previously robert_tuck wrote:

Your side panels are from another (smaller) deluxe

That's an interesting point Robert. They're certainly not Jubilee or Navigator panels as those have the lower mounting fasteners in a different position. Someone mentioned in an earlier thread that the panel sizes changed on De Luxe Dommies over the production run but I'm afraid I don't know anything about that.

If the piston piston pins are a bit tight (should float hot) it will clank when cold

Another very interesting point and maybe, just maybe, the explanation for my 'clanking' on kicking it over as the gudgeon pins that came with the new pistons are an extremely tight fit in the conrods (at last! I knew if this thread ran long enough the malapropism in the title would eventually make sense). The pins fit so tightly in fact that I had to warm up the conrods to get them in. So, with gudgeon pins tight in the conrods, would the clanking be wear in the big end bearings making itself heard perhaps? I must say, the more I think about it the more I'm convinced that you've identified the problem/idiosyncracy (take your pick).

The battery on mine is on its last knockings too but as my bike has magneto ingnition it's of little real relevance.

Anyway, thanks very much for your insightful thoughts Robert, I shall now 'boldly go' as someone once said and try starting it. Thanks also Lawrence and Gordon for your kind words.

I fitted the fairing manyyears ago but the bike has got less and less use being the most cumbersum of my stable,needing a bike to carry my sons in the IOM I was glumly thinking of the hassle of removing the mudguard when a memory from 1968! popped up.A siezure at 95mph on the MI (overheated!) Prompted me to do a roadside strip,Off with fairing,head and barrels , On the Motorway. A bit of filing and back together to clank off home. And i did not remove the wheel or mudguard.Heartenned by this memory I tried what does look impossible, And it will go,Just.If the pin is that tight in the rod I would be concerned, Although std practise in some older car engines I would worry that with Norton tolerances a tight pin/rod will not allow the piston to find a comfy position in what could easily be out of parralel bores.(you did sieze ?) Little end will need reaming if the pins fit right to the piston,(oval small end?). You could be right about the side panels, They may have altered them to fit the mythical 650 DL which had a DD head.

I used 99 pins in 650 pistons and they were too tight, Can't remember how i got over this ,probably fine carborundem paper !, Don't use this on a bush.Did it sieze with the mag in place?,If so check the timing on both sides.Clanking on kickover sounds worrying.

I'm going to try to post a picture of my DL ,only fair that you can nitpick on my bike too.

New pistons need new pins ,I expect you heated the pistons to fit the pins ,when they should slide in,Its possible that the use and seizure has ovalled the small end, Were they both tight? My 99 came to me in the same state, You could try the old pins for fit in the new pistons ,but pins do tire out so its better to ream the rod.I do aprove of your "interpretation" of the Dove grey , very gay!, Do you get asked for a "99 with a flake"!.Dove grey is a drab colour.

-Bushed small ends are simple to ream ,you can buy an adjustable hand reamer from Tracy Tools ,a bit of rag in the case to catch any waste .Not expensive.Easy. Motor should not be tight,Good opportunity to check for problem with rings, Did you check the ring gaps in the Bore? I had an oversize one in my set. ,What type of oil rings ? some can cause problems if expander not butting.Where are you located?.

-Bushed small ends are simple to ream ,you can buy an adjustable hand reamer from Tracy Tools ,a bit of rag in the case to catch any waste .Not expensive.Easy. Motor should not be tight,Good opportunity to check for problem with rings, Did you check the ring gaps in the Bore? I had an oversize one in my set. ,What type of oil rings ? some can cause problems if expander not butting.Where are you located?.

Hi Howard, I'm about 30 min ride from you, If you want to PM a phone no, I will pop round (on my trusty 99DL!) and listen to it. Seems a shame to rip it down again without giving it a go. BoB.

One other thought,could it be that a cam follower is sticky (swopped over?) and is snapping back onto the cam. Did you have it re-bored or honed ? Its possible to mix them (I did!).

Previously howard_thompson wrote:

I didn't remove the cam followers Bob, although I did have the bores honed (with the cam followers still in situ). Mysteriouser and mysteriouser, as they say. Its possible that some abrasive or honing debris has got in the follower tunnel and causing them to be stiff?.

Good news!, If as you say the pins were an easy fit in the pistons then they will float as they should .I have been struggling with ignition problems and stupidly forgot that dirty plugs cannot be relied upon to work even after the cause of the problem has been fixed.Must be old age !.Now that my bike has had some real hard work the compression has realy increased and the piston slap appears to have dissapeared,strange.

Looking at the shot of your bike ,you will have to play around a bit to get clearance, you have pipes,silencers and brackets all not standard .Not that this is unusual,I don't think anyone makes a correct replacement for any of these parts, The nearest correct look is a set of Siamese pipes (an option at that time ) which at least gives a kick up under the gearbox,mated to a cheroot silencer ,The orriginal pipes dropped down directly from the port, had a nice curved line a bit like a model 7 and a noticable kick up under the gearbox and cheroot silencers which were high enough to give a problem with the wheel spindle.

A crumb of comfort (other than we all have these Eureka moments from time to time). I still have the original silencer mounts and still have had the kickstart clip the offside silencer from time to time over the years. Various combinations of replacement silencer and kickstart will cause it. A large ball pein hammer has been brought into play on these occasions.Regarding siamese exhausts. Removing and replacing them once they have seen a few years use can be a mite challenging. It can result in somewhat mangled exhaust port threads. Not so good.

Great to hear your bike is up and running. My one just had its annual wash and maintenance - one spoke replaced and a new wheel bearing. Not too bad for a year's thrashing.

Hi Gordon, I did try to get some new pipes but found the suppliers considered that one set of pipes was right to fit the 88 and 99, when Norton thought it needed two sets,also the pipes were just a collection of straights and bends and headed upwards from the ports!. The siamese came from RGM,still a very poor fit and came with a collet fitting on one port that looked odd but should prove easier to remove ,The best bet is to re-furbish an old rusty set or get a stainless set made to measure.

Oddly enough I have used Armour's universal stainless 88 & 99 pipes on both 88 & 99 and they ain't bad. Original factory exhausts must be a mite thin on the ground now. The ideal solution if you can get them.