Mk3 Mini Starter and Boyer

The Boyer ignition system seems to struggle to maintain accurate timing at low voltages and drawing a lot of current via your starter will drop the voltage. I'm not familiar with the "mini starter you have fitted but I seem to recall just recently reading about someone who had fitted a small 12v auxiliary battery to power the ignition while the main battery does it's own thing while cranking the engine. Once started, the aux battery could be switched out of the system allowing the main battery to resume the ignition task. A trip to Maplin for a small lead acid battery and a switch might be cheaper than a Trispark or Paton system. Seems a shame to ditch a serviceable Boyer.

MK4 is improved over MK3 to be closer to Pazon at low voltages, ask Boyer to be 100%.

MK4 is improved over MK3 to be closer to Pazon at low voltages, ask Boyer to be 100%.

David, have a look at the Oddesy batteries on the web. They cost a lot more than a standard item but deliver a massive cranking current and can maintain the voltage whilst doing so. Mine is a 535 (£99 in 2012) and is so numbered because it is claimed to deliver up to 535 amps, or 1,000 amps short circuit (best have a fuse in line then).

You have to get one the next size up from standard (unless they now make smaller one) and on a Mk3 it has to fit longways on the platform, thus you cannot have the standard airbox.

Previously steven_hurd wrote:

My MK3 had the electric starter missing when I bought it, along with all the relevant parts so I'm replacing everything. I bought one of the small mini starters plus heavy-duty cables. I also have the Boyer MK4 fitted as part of the upgrade.

I've just read something on the MAP website that has me worried about this setup? In the description for the mini starter it says:

"

• If you are using a Boyer ignition system on your Norton, we have found electric starters draw too much current for the Boyer to work properly. We would recommend changing back to a points system, or a DIGITAL electronic ignition system like a Tri-Spark or Pazon electronic ignition system. The Lucas RITA system will work, but is no longer manufactured."

How true is this? Does this mean I will need to change the setup to a Tri-Spark or Pazon? If so, which one is best?

Very difficult to say if this incomplete declaration is true.

I don't know if you are using a MAP starter (which I make and sell to MAP)

My ignition research articles really ruffled a few feathers back in the day. However my later article which discovered the spark scatter effect, I very specifically call out the MKIII analog boyer as being deficient for electric start use. Boyer seemed to be one of the last to offer a more voltage stable unit, their MKIV is reported to be OK .

http://atlanticgreen.com/boyerevolved.htm

By far the biggest problem as I see it is the lack of adequate charging and NOT the size of the battery.

An Atlas, regular Commando and stock MKIII battery will all crank up an e-start if fully charged.

I highly recommend a 180/210watt 3 phase upgrade over a big battery.

Hi Steven

I too believe the real problems come from tired batteries and insufficient charge. My friend and I both run Boyer ignition systems with Micropower coils Kit00284 on our MK3's, We use Motobat batteries, both upgraded to HD cables( his from AN, I bought cable and connectors and made my own) both bikes have Podtronic regulator rectifiers. His bike has a two lead stator mine has a three lead. His bike is fitted with one of the newer style small starter motors, I have rebuilt my original armature into a Chinese 4 brush sportster case. My bike still has it's original solenoid, his has been replaced with something form the local auto factors. Both bikes are fitted with eighteen roller sprag clutches yours for £50 from your local bearing shop . Both bikes are fitted with ICM charge warning modules.

And now for the best Part.

Both bikes start on the button hot or cold every time !!

Seasons greetings

Katherine Scott

As has been suggested by others, if everything is spot on. Good battery, Good cables, good starter. Then the Boyer will probably be ok.

But if not then the spark can be upto 30 degrees advanced or retarded. Or the sparks are missing completely.

This occurs if the volts drop below about 9

I sometimes had the situation where the bike would spin over fairly quickly without starting and when I released the starter buttonthe bike would just start and other times there would be a massive bang and it didn't

I now have Pazon SureFire which runs down to 6V and I never have problems with it.

Tony

Previously Katherine Scott wrote:

.... Both bikes are fitted with eighteen roller sprag clutches yours for £50 from your local bearing shop .

Hi Katherine,

What is the part number for the sprag ? The Andover Norton one is £73.50 + VAT

Thanks

Tony

I have an Alton starter fitted to my Mk.2a and Tri-Spark Classic Twin ignition, starting is instant under all circumstances - I cannot comment on any Boyer system as I haven't used them for years.

Previously Tony Ripley wrote:

Previously Katherine Scott wrote:

.... Both bikes are fitted with eighteen roller sprag clutches yours for £50 from your local bearing shop .

Hi Katherine,

What is the part number for the sprag ? The Andover Norton one is £73.50 + VAT

Thanks

Tony

Hi Tony

It's a, Stieber overunning clutch Part No DC-4127 (3C) -N

Regards

Katherine

Also my experience with Boyer Mk 3 fitted on my Mk 3 850 - but since itstarts up without fail first kick every time I've given up using the electric start.

Previously David Comeau wrote:

By far the biggest problem as I see it is the lack of adequate charging and NOT the size of the battery.

An Atlas, regular Commando and stock MKIII battery will all crank up an e-start if fully charged.

I highly recommend a 180/210watt 3 phase upgrade over a big battery.

Totally agree, David. The battery size (capacity) is not so important and that a 3 phase charge is a bigger priority. But the thing I was trying to contribute about the Oddesy is not its size, at 14Ah it is not a big battery, but its greater plate surface means it suffers less voltage drop when cranking. We all recognise that low battery voltage is the electronic ignition damager.

The large cranking capacity of modern gel batteries depends on charging to around 12.8V or better. If you have a charging system designed for 12V, it simply won't access the full capacity of the battery. You need a regulator designed for 12.8V. Does the Podtronics regulator do this?

Paul