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Whoops ..........

Problems with the Nortons in this year's TT events may require a good deal of scrutiny but here's one issue that probably won't.............. Better luck next year, we hope.  Cheers, Howard 

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Hello and yes is sad news that Norton V4  is having oil pressure issues as well  hope the Norton team get this sorted out soon    ,  I was hoping to see a number one podum  this year but its not to be  yet again so better luck next year  guys,   all the best,   yours Anna J  

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Was it the new engine or the old Aprillia engine? No need to sort it soon unless they are going to attend more races in the next few weeks or so. 

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Trust you sent the picture to Mr Garner and team so they can understand why it came out?

I thought the V4 was the Norton product based on their experience with the Aprillia ???

Still the best sounding machine on the island :-)

 

Jon

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Did you see the Lightweight race at the IoM? The Norton 650s were being overtaken like they were standing still by the Paton and Kawasaki bikes. Long way to go to be competitive it seems.

Nick

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Hiyah Nick -  Perhaps they thought that having Hickman and McGuiness riding them it would be OK if they were 30 mph slower than the rest............Or perhaps not !  Apparently the engine bolts on the Superbike aren't really necessary so long as the Gorilla glue holds everything together.  Cheers, Howard

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Peter Hickman's 8th place, speed 119Mph is not too bad for the Norton lightweight. Saw it at the Bungalow, marginally slower away from the righthander. In lightweight you must have a high cornering speed there to get speed on the slightly uphill straight after the S bend. So it could be either a handling issue or lack of power. The raceline at the Bungalow is different for lightweights than it is for the more powerful bikes. The Kawasaki engined bike teams has been there before, so they must know better how to set up the bikes for the Mountain course. Weather conditions with so few practise laps must have made it difficult for Norton to enter a new bike. Anyhow, one finish out of four entered must be disappointing. Anybody knows why?

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Not surprising, and is it really that bad, NMUK make motorcycles first and race second, the likes of the teams that come higher are pure race teams that do it every day, every week of the year, so have the preparation, testing and experience in abundance. This is where NMUK fall over, the reason for 1 finishing was lack of preparation and track time. 

They should get some up and coming youngsters in the saddles and not bother with big names that can't be around to maximise preparation and testing opportunities. Knowing the course is one thing, getting the bike over the finish line is another. Reliability first speed and pace come next. 

I also believe the new V4 1200 is based on a totally different design to the Aprillia engine, and that engine used at the TT was not a reduced version of the new engine, so assume it was the old engine. .   

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If the tried and tested super bike with the Aprilia motor was falling apart beneath him what chance was there for the new lightweight model ?   Frankly I am surprised  that Hickie finished at all.  Norton  Motors UK could do what Paton are doing and beef up the Kawasaki ER5 donk........Oh, but get some experienced Italian mechanics as well.......Ho hum !  It may be better that they assign the name Norton to history then we won't be so embarrassed  with their exploits.  When all and sundry are buzzing about on their electric whizz boxes I feel it would be better not to be associated through the "Unapproachable" eponym.   Cheers, Howard

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Wow! What a lot of negativity flying around here! Nothing like backing Britain, eh?

I recall the commentators saying the superbike was using the Aprilia engine. 

For it's first year the lightweight didn't do too badly, with absolutely no data from the Island to go on, whereas the other teams have plenty.

119mph lap and 8th place? Pretty good for starters. Shows potential, I would say!

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Every disappointment is a lesson for the manufacturer.  Here is a company trying to achieve.  Should be encouraged not frowned upon...

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But to have one bike finish is not that bad, Guy Martin's Honda team withdrew last year, so put it into perspective not great but could have been worse. 

They whole race management team at NMUK is to blame, they stuck their heads out for the NW200 and the TT and got shot in the backside, twice. Both big race events, attended with naff all preparation - it showed! 

They have two sensible options, either concentrate on getting the factory built and road bikes made, then re-enter racing, or have young team starting from afresh, on the UK race circuits at the lower entry levels weekend racing and work up, this would be the cheapest and most sensible option, and I bet more fun for the NMUK team and riders. Stuart Garner should know this, apparently he did it in his past years, as a privateer. 

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Hi all,

   This is slightly off the subject, but having grown up through the 1960s the Lightweight class was for engines up to 250cc. Today this class, to the detriment of all things environmental and technical, is now for machines of up to 650cc, over a third bigger than what used to be the Senior class. Just think what lap times Geoff Duke and others could have done on a 650cc Manx over 7 reliable laps.

   Just for the record, a 250 lapped at 99 mph.......58 years ago........on 3inch tyres.....on a slower, more difficult track.....with drum brakes.......and no computer!

 

hello we were lapping the Iom back in 1970s  at over 120mph on sidecars  we had only side rules  and our brains   ,and  my Great uncle  Freddie Dixon was lapping island at 68.99 on dirt bumpy roads in 1923   the year he won the first ever sidecar races  on his douglas 600cc banking sidecar      all hand built  No computer back then!!   only  side Rules and Brain power,   

        Yours  Anna J 

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The TT was undoubtedly a disappointment for all concerned, especially Stuart Garner, I seem to remember a figure of 10million being invested by him.

Putting John Mc Guinness and Peter Hickman on the bikes was probably a step too far in that their potential exceeded the capability of the machines to deliver.

However .. those two were probably the ideal pairing to give top quality feedback on where the machines were lacking and what steps are needed to improve for next year.

I hope there is a next year. Remember - the man who never failed never achieved anything

So you keyboard warriors out there - it's our name on the tank - NORTON - give the guys some credit and wish them well for next year.

Best regards,

Chas

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Chas, 

Yes, I understand where you are coming from, but many teams who take on these tough road races, don't even get a finish, some don't make it out of qualifying on occasion, so I don't really get the 'undoubtedly a disappointment'  part, if that is the feeling of those around Stuart Garner he should dump them and get some positivety in place. 

Considering the results they had at these two meetings was most probably better than expected considering the weather conditions, there is no doubt the preparation in the previous 12 months could have been better no matter who was chosen to ride the bikes. Maybe then if the Donington team look at what they have achieved in the circumstances based on the past 12 months leading upto the meetings then I really don't see much to be disappointed about. It is still early days for the NMUK race team.  

Simply, if you go into battle unprepared it will be a hard fight, preparation and training will make the battle easier.   

I would love to see Norton do better next year - but why next year? they are surely not the only races the bikes could enter, so come on, let us see the racers at other UK races throughout the year, maybe that will also generate much testing and development time and support from the public and not just Norton owners.  

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Hello all NOCers  now  to me  Mr garner  seems to be a man trying to run  before he can and bites off more then he can handle,or a man in a big rush and getting not very far,   and He dose not seem to listen to others with more experience then he ever have,  And I believe his frame designs are not suited to the IOM , and He needs a Fresh start, to produce a good race bike  starting with a complete new spine frame design  and then an all new 900 v6 that 150cc per cylinder   smooth power  and good toque  and keeping every thing low  to the center of gravity    A V6 needs no balancers  as its self balance by design   four valve per cylinder desmodromic action and oil cooled  with two driven oil pumps  one for oil presser and the other for cooling the faring becomes the cooler  and air box intake,  fuel injected  and magnetronic ignition  direct from the crankshaft end,  and tested on a rolling road,   get the bike right then motorcycle will ride its self,  home of a victory  so back to the drawing board, chaps  and best of luck,  yours  anna j   

In reply to by anna_jeannette_dixon

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Anna

Again your information is seriously incorrect.

According to my 1983 TT programme, the highest race lap record for the 1970's was Trevor Ireson / Clive Pollington speed of 102.14 mph for the three laps in 1979.

Freddie Dixons 1923 speed for the three laps is stated at 53.15 mph

Your computer must be adding approx 20 to 25% to any figure you type, It must need recalibrating!

I stand to be corrected but aren't race bikes limited to four cylinders? That will increase the error your computer is adding (up to 50%)  

regards Peter

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I agree that Norton should be praised for at least trying to get the IoM racing going. Shame the results were not so great (last year 4th in the Senior?) keep it going it is always good to see the Norton logo at speed.

Best of luck next year

nick

Hello peter now you need to read more  The fastest timed lap in 1923 was  57.18mph and that was Freddie Dixon on his banking side car  but to do this lap time the motorcycle was hitting speeds of wellover 68 mph  on rough roads  of the day  

Anna

What you have just said contradicts your previous statement. I reiterate your information was wrong and its you who needs to read more, using a different coloured pair of glasses!   

Hi Ashley,

I am not critising Norton, although my comments could maybe give that impression. Definitely not the case. I was attempting to counter some of the negativity expressed previously. Stuart Garner and his team have my greatest respect and deserve the support of all us Noccers, they don't need "Knockers", there are plenty of those outside the club.

My disappointment stems from the fact that Norton have been making steady progress up to this point, but now seem to have gone back a step. Still a noteworthy achievement and the breakdowns seem to have been fairly minor - no conrods out in the breeze!

Your comments re- Honda put things nicely into perspective. At least the Norton is not trying to kill it's riders!

I totally agree more tracktime would be of benefit. Would be great to see Davy Todd at Scarborough on the Norton.

best regards,

Chas

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Hopefully they won't reincarnate a Joe Craig personality who pinches the best technical resources for the race team.  It must be a challenging balance for a relatively small firm.  How well did Norton do relative to the private teams?  That's probably a fairer comparison than with the likes of factory supported teams from Honda, Yamaha, BMW etc.  If Norton were to beat BMW, we might well ask why they were pouring such resources into bikes that the customers won't see.

 

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