Just in the process of cleaning out the Fastback oiltank as part of my rebuild. I had fitted a magnet to the tank drain plug and was always quite smug about what wasn't showing at oil change time. I swilled the tank out several times with petrol and removed the mag plug. It was completely covered in debris, moved on to hot water and washing up liquid and again the mag plug was covered. (Looked like a small christmas tree) Seems that the sludge in the bottom of the oil tank was trapping the debris and thinking about it, maybe I was magnetising the whole tank. I'm now going to consider an inline magplug to trap particles on their way back from the pump. Problem is, by that time it's been through the pump. Need one in the middle of the big sump plug ideally. Thoughts?
That's after the second w…
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HI Dave Andover Norton hav…
HI Dave Andover Norton have magnetic crankcase filter unit part No 067281 £24 +vat & P&P. They have a new phone No 01264 359565. You can see a picture on the accessories page,
Regards Peter
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There is a huge range of v…
There is a huge range of very powerful but small neodymium magnets available all over the web and in numerous profiles. I guess there must be something out there that could be added to an existing sump plug without restricting oil flow.
Very shortly, I too am going to be emptying my oil tank and wonder what delights will be lurking in the bottom of it.
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hi all Interesting picture…
hi all
Interesting picture of David's oil tank magnetic plug and the crap it picked up, personally i'd want to know where this debris originated from.
when i first rebuilt my commando back in 1998 I found one of the camshaft lobes had basically worn away giving no lift (if I can find it i'll try and post a picture) this quarter of an inch or so of missing lobe ,went through the engine and caused it to be garaged for fifteen odd years before I purchased it, Also had to rebuild a mate's triumph when an AERO nut lost the locking part at the top where the split is and wrecked his mains
I wouldn't bother with an inline magplug, possible blockage waiting to happen, You could consider fixing a magnet into a non ferrous( brass or aluminium) oil tank drain plug with araldite or whatever to isolate the magnet from the tank or easier still glue a magnet to your oil filler cap dipstick to catch any muck as it returns to the tank , you could then check whats returning to the oil tank after each run without the need to drain it down
good luck
STEVE
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That is indeed a heck of a…
That is indeed a heck of a lot of ferrous bits stuck to the magnet. Even when a cam lobe disappeared I didn't find as much on the engine strip down. A cause for concern indeed. Is the debris old as in pre-rebuild or new as in post-rebuild? If it was lurking in the sludge, one can hope it was the former. Gordon.
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..... or easier still glue…
..... or easier still glue a magnet to your oil filler cap dipstick to catch any muck as it returns to the tank, you could then check what's returning to the oil tank after each run without the need to drain it down .....
Don't you just love it when people have good ideas? Simple to do as well; I think I'll try it.
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Gordon, Would this Command…
Gordon,
Would this Commando have an oil filter and if so wouldn't the filter catch the debris as it passes through?
Tony
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or easier still glue a mag…
or easier still glue a magnet to your oil filler cap dipstick to catch any muck as it returns to the tank, you could then check what's returning to the oil tank after each run without the need to drain it down .
Just found some strong magnets on E-bay the same width as the tank dipstick for £5, so I think that wee modification is on the cards, simple Ideas are often the best.
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I've had the bike since 1…
I've had the bike since 1975 and this is the second engine strip that I've done, the last one was in 1984. Neither previous strips revealed anything untoward. I fitted a cartridge filter in 85 and I'm inclined to think that the debris has been there since before I owned the bike. Maybe I didn't make a very good job of cleaning the tank out last time. During normal oil changes there was only ever a fine fur on the mag plug. The early Fastback tanks are a pretty awkward shape and there is a seam along the bottom edge. I think that getting a long thin paintbrush on the cleaning job has lifted some 40 year old crud that has been lying happily (for me anyway) dormant.
I bought the bike in 75 from a guy in Barry S Wales. He had another Commando that was for sale (an early silver Fastback) but that had gone when I went to view it. Some weeks later he contacted me to offer me the second bike and I bought it for £350
Speaking to a chap at the Thames Valley track day on the military test track a good few years ago, it turned out that he had bought the first machine. He had guessed that the seller was an amateur racer as his bike, as mine, had a liberal dose of wire locking holes. (Is that member still around? Tony .......) Bikes thrashed to death and flogged on to poor unsuspecting punters like me
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I'm going to modify the b…
I'm going to modify the big sump nut as per the ANIL item to avoid any ferrous stuff going through the pump. The sump nut needs to be removed at oil change time because there is a lot of oil that drains down from the crank that would not get changed if you just drain and replenish the oiltank.
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OK, I have now drained the…
OK, I have now drained the oil tank and found comparatively little sludge. What I did find was an indecent quantity of water. I guess that't the detergent in the oil doing its job and as long as the level remains way below the gauze offtake filter, it's unlikely to cause much harm.
I think I might look at trying to improve on Norton's arrangment for draining the tank - you know it, the one where the oil firstly rushes out at you and is uncatchable, then as the flow diminishes it settles down to flowing all over the frame, cradle and swinging arm.
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But the oil draining all o…
But the oil draining all over the bike is what stops it from rusting!
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Chris, have you actually r…
Chris, have you actually removed the tank and poked around in the bottom of it with a long thin paint brush and some petrol? I'm not sure what shape your tank is but just draining mine was not even half the story. Draining the tank is a dark art involving specially cut old oil bottles, carefully trapped behind the kickstart lever with the tube from the bottle top pointing towards a plastic milk carton, just as you reach the vinegar strokes, the whole lot moves and just like your rust proof bike the front drive/garage floor also becomes rust proof and black. taking the oil tank cap off and inverting the bike is the easier way.
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I usually put a small axle…
I usually put a small axle stand under the foot rest so the bike leans towards you and the side stand down with a block of wood under it to hold it firm. All the oil in the tank then can flow towards the drain plug. I then put an old oil can with a funnel under the oil tank and the garage floor stays oil free (most of the time).
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Chris, have you actually r…
Chris, have you actually removed the tank and poked around in the bottom of it with a long thin paint brush and some petrol?
Dave,
This time round, it's all apart so yes, I have been able to do the full Monty on the oil tank. As has been discussed, the really interesting stuff is at the bottom below the filter level. I drained it, brushed and rinsed it numerous times with paraffin [cheaper and safer than petrol!] then did the detergent, hot water and bottle brush routine in the kitchen sink while my wife was away.
The sludge at the bottom and in the crack where the tank is welded took some shifting but it all came out. I found no evidence of any metal particles. I finished off with boiling water so that most of it then evaporated, a quick blast with the heat gun and then into a warm cupboard. As long as the sludge is not disturbed, I guess it can accumulate down there for years and not cause bother but I would recommend a full oil tank clean out at extended intervals.
I have said before that when Bauer, Hooper and Trigg designed the Commando they started with the battery tray and built the rest of the bike around it. The oil tank was second on the parts list so it is indeed easier to rig some tackle from the garage roof and invert the whole thing when it comes to a full clean out on the tank.
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As the big nut filter is o…
As the big nut filter is on the scavenge side of the pump,thecanister filter kit prevents any crap going back into the tank, but does not protect the pump. I suppose putting a finer filter in the sump plug might cause scavenge problems so what is the ANIL item please.
I was not actually very happy (bits in thetank filter)with the internal condition of my 68' Commando oil tank with all of its crevices and tight cornersetc so I lined the tank as per you would a steel petrol tank and no more problems were encountered since.
Changing the oil is a messy business as we all agree, butthe problemcan be eased by buying a large steel syringe (complete with tubing)from 'Clarkes Machine Mart' and sucking out most of the tank contents before removing the drain plug.
Previously wrote:
I'm going to modify the big sump nut as per the ANIL item to avoid any ferrous stuff going through the pump. The sump nut needs to be removed at oil change time because there is a lot of oil that drains down from the crank that would not get changed if you just drain and replenish the oiltank.
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Previously wrote: Just in…
Previously wrote:
Just in the process of cleaning out the Fastback oiltank as part of my rebuild. I had fitted a magnet to the tank drain plug and was always quite smug about what wasn't showing at oil change time. I swilled the tank out several times with petrol and removed the mag plug. It was completely covered in debris, moved on to hot water and washing up liquid and again the mag plug was covered. (Looked like a small christmas tree) Seems that the sludge in the bottom of the oil tank was trapping the debris and thinking about it, maybe I was magnetising the whole tank. I'm now going to consider an inline magplug to trap particles on their way back from the pump. Problem is, by that time it's been through the pump. Need one in the middle of the big sump plug ideally. Thoughts?
most ofus must have had a" moment" when changing the oil.What about syphoning ,with a clear tube so you can see it comming?It might also give you an idea of the sludge quotiant when" getting down and dirty"Just a thought.
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Syphoning petrol normally…
Syphoning petrol normally leads to a mouthful of petrol, not sure I could handle old 20/50.
The modified sump plug is done, drilled through the head of the plug 12 mm, turned up a mild steel boss and drilled and taped it 3/8" UNF. Silver soldered the two together. liberated a small magnet from a Norton Rotary gearbox drain plug and loctited it in a 3/8 UNF set screw. (could have used the Rotary drain plug but it was foreign metric cr-p)
Total cost, 2 hours of bliss piddling about in the garage, life doesn't get any better, must get out a bit more. (note to self, take smoke alarm battery out before soldering)
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Previously wrote: ... 2 ho…
Previously wrote:
... 2 hours of bliss piddling about in the garage, life doesn't get any better...
Dave, with those few words you have unlocked the mystery of life and, at last, answered the question, 'Why are we here?' If you ever decide to run for high office you can surely rely on my vote.
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Previously wrote: Just in…
Previously wrote:
Just in the process of cleaning out the Fastback oiltank as part of my rebuild. I had fitted a magnet to the tank drain plug and was always quite smug about what wasn't showing at oil change time. I swilled the tank out several times with petrol and removed the mag plug. It was completely covered in debris, moved on to hot water and washing up liquid and again the mag plug was covered. (Looked like a small christmas tree) Seems that the sludge in the bottom of the oil tank was trapping the debris and thinking about it, maybe I was magnetising the whole tank. I'm now going to consider an inline magplug to trap particles on their way back from the pump. Problem is, by that time it's been through the pump. Need one in the middle of the big sump plug ideally. Thoughts?
I took the oil tank off and put nuts in with Gunk and gave it a good shake. got all the sludge out andI found the dip stick from the filler cap in there, must have been there for years before Ibought the bike.
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or easier still glue a mag…
or easier still glue a magnet to your oil filler cap dipstick to catch any muck as it returns to the tank, you could then check what's returning to the oil tank after each run without the need to drain it down .
Just found some strong magnets on E-bay the same width as the tank dipstick for £5, so I think that wee modification is on the cards, simple Ideas are often the best.
The magnets on the dipstick work a treat, they're actually the same width as the dipstick and I've fitted one either side so no need to glue them on as they stay put on their own. They make the whole length become magnetic so catch any debris in the oil as it comes out of the return line.
A 150 mile run out and they never moved so I think they'll be a permanent fixture.
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Previously wrote: or easi…
Previously wrote:
or easier still glue a magnet to your oil filler cap dipstick to catch any muck as it returns to the tank, you could then check what's returning to the oil tank after each run without the need to drain it down .
Just found some strong magnets on E-bay the same width as the tank dipstick for £5, so I think that wee modification is on the cards, simple Ideas are often the best.
The magnets on the dipstick work a treat, they're actually the same width as the dipstick and I've fitted one either side so no need to glue them on as they stay put on their own. They make the whole length become magnetic so catch any debris in the oil as it comes out of the return line.
A 150 mile run out and they never moved so I think they'll be a permanent fixture.
Mac,
Do you have an ebay number for the magnets you used ?
By the way, on your other post, fitting adjustable float tangs is precisely what Burlen (Amal) have done with their latest "stay up floats" Of course you do have to pay for the privelage !
thanks
sam
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Mac, Do you have an ebay n…
Mac,
Do you have an ebay number for the magnets you used ?
By the way, on your other post, fitting adjustable float tangs is precisely what Burlen (Amal) have done with their latest "stay up floats" Of course you do have to pay for the privelage !
thanks
sam
Here you go Sam, maybe I'll get one of those with stay up floats when this one gets past it!
5 Very Strong Neodymium Block Magnets 25x8x2 mm N52 Strongest Grade craft models
Item Number 160949268645
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Previously wrote: I've ha…
Previously wrote:
I've had the bike since 1975 and this is the second engine strip that I've done, the last one was in 1984. Neither previous strips revealed anything untoward. I fitted a cartridge filter in 85 and I'm inclined to think that the debris has been there since before I owned the bike. Maybe I didn't make a very good job of cleaning the tank out last time. During normal oil changes there was only ever a fine fur on the mag plug. The early Fastback tanks are a pretty awkward shape and there is a seam along the bottom edge. I think that getting a long thin paintbrush on the cleaning job has lifted some 40 year old crud that has been lying happily (for me anyway) dormant.
I bought the bike in 75 from a guy in Barry S Wales. He had another Commando that was for sale (an early silver Fastback) but that had gone when I went to view it. Some weeks later he contacted me to offer me the second bike and I bought it for £350
Speaking to a chap at the Thames Valley track day on the military test track a good few years ago, it turned out that he had bought the first machine. He had guessed that the seller was an amateur racer as his bike, as mine, had a liberal dose of wire locking holes. (Is that member still around? Tony .......) Bikes thrashed to death and flogged on to poor unsuspecting punters like me
Dave
If you still have the cartridge filter fitted, then you can either add "engine sentry" magnets to the inside of the filter, (these are two small ball bearing magnets that hold metal particles in the filter, or you can purchase the e bay magnets 6mm X1mm and attach say 20 of these on the outside of the cartridge filter. these do the same job, but can be removed and re used at every filter change, whilst the sentry magnets are thrown away with the filter.
I have used both these to great effect on my other bikes. Fitting the magnets in or to the filter ensures that the oil has to pass over them and therefore has the best chance of catching any particles.
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If you still have the cart…
If you still have the cartridge filter fitted, then you can either add "engine sentry" magnets to the inside of the filter, (these are two small ball bearing magnets that hold metal particles in the filter
I'm interested in the logic behind adding magnets inside the cartridge filter? Surely the filter element itself will retain any unwanted particles, the only other place I could think that they'd be of any real use would be inside the scavenge filter of the sump plug.
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Previously wrote: If you s…
Previously wrote:
If you still have the cartridge filter fitted, then you can either add "engine sentry" magnets to the inside of the filter, (these are two small ball bearing magnets that hold metal particles in the filter
I'm interested in the logic behind adding magnets inside the cartridge filter? Surely the filter element itself will retain any unwanted particles, the only other place I could think that they'd be of any real use would be inside the scavenge filter of the sump plug.
Itâs the same logic as fitting a magnetic scavenge filter sump plug. Filters are not absolute, and therefore Ferro-magnetic particles as big as 30 to 40 microns can pass through them. A good magnetic filter system has been found to remove out particle sizes even down to 1 micron (absolute).
My BMW's have magnetic sump plugs, but as only a small percentage of the oil passes near the plug, it is better to have the magnets in the filter, where a very large percentage of the oil has to pass through it. I have fitted an Andover magnetic scavenge filter sump plug, but as the magnets are so cheap, I have also fitted them to the filter. I think this is better than gluing them to dip sticks and hoping the oil passes over them?
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That's after the second wash!! not good.
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