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MK 3 brake bleeding

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Just fitted an RGM front brake master cylinder conversion. For the life of me I cant get the damn thing to bleed. I have tried leaving it overnight with the lever cable tied tight to the handlebars, bled it as best I could with handlebars flat and with the bike on side stand with handlebars at highest point. I get very little fluid out of the bleed nipple when I try it that way. Air has come out of the two holes in the reservoir initially when I put it back on the bike but there must be more in there. I can't even get the brake to a position of feeling any resistance at all and some recognition that the system is responding in the usual way. There are no leeks in the system that I can see. What I do notice is when I pull on the brake lever to operate the piston it judders as it moves down 'barrel'. I have adjusted the piston pusher and tried it in a number of positions but no luck. On past posts here I see a variety of success with the 'upgrade'. I did toy with the idea of changing both the front and back brakes with Japanese systems as some owners have but decided to keep to the original. Your thoughts

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Hi Mike,

This is unlikely to be a bleeding problem as it is an easy brake to bleed at least fairly well, sometimes tricky to get the last bubble out.

Did you buy the kit from RGM and fit it yourself or do as I did and send it off to RGM for them to modify?

I know from other members that it is not the easiest kit to fit. But you will find RGM are very helpfull so I agree with Alan,give them a call.

Tony

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The tricky thing to sort out is whether the air is still in the calliper, or whether your Master Cylinder upgrade is not quite working correctly.

With the Master check that a small amount of fluid is ejected from one of the holes (I can't remember which one) for the first couple of millimetres of lever travel.

In recent years I have had much more success by bleeding the calliper with it removed from the forks and a piece of metal of disc thickness inserted between the pads. I then invert the calliper and rotate it to allow the air to take its escape path to the nipple, while actuating the lever. I have a Lockheed calliper but the same logic applies to the Norton original.

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Look at the oilways and air vent drilling in the caliper and you will understand the reason why the same setup is a pig to bleed on the MK3 over the pre MK3.

Irrespective of what master cylinder you are using the problem is usually in the caliper when fitted to the MK3.

Fill the system as per the manual, bleed as much air as you can form the system, remove hose, fit MC cap and take bike off the stand, lean to left and rock forwards and back, lean other way and repeat (it does not need to lean much) then re-bleed.

This enables the small pockets of air trapped in each piston chamber to move to the underside of the bleed nipple. These pockets of air can rise naturally on the caliper when fitted to pre-MK3. 15 minutes - job done.

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Previously ashley_cutler wrote:

Look at the oilways and air vent drilling in the caliper and you will understand the reason why the same setup is a pig to bleed on the MK3 over the pre MK3.

Irrespective of what master cylinder you are using the problem is usually in the caliper when fitted to the MK3.

Fill the system as per the manual, bleed as much air as you can form the system, remove hose, fit MC cap and take bike off the stand, lean to left and rock forwards and back, lean other way and repeat (it does not need to lean much) then re-bleed.

This enables the small pockets of air trapped in each piston chamber to move to the underside of the bleed nipple. These pockets of air can rise naturally on the caliper when fitted to pre-MK3. 15 minutes - job done.

Ashley thanks

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Previously norman_lorton wrote:

The tricky thing to sort out is whether the air is still in the calliper, or whether your Master Cylinder upgrade is not quite working correctly.

With the Master check that a small amount of fluid is ejected from one of the holes (I can't remember which one) for the first couple of millimetres of lever travel.

In recent years I have had much more success by bleeding the calliper with it removed from the forks and a piece of metal of disc thickness inserted between the pads. I then invert the calliper and rotate it to allow the air to take its escape path to the nipple, while actuating the lever. I have a Lockheed calliper but the same logic applies to the Norton original.

Norman thanks

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Previously neill_watkins wrote:

mike_steer

I use the same bleed technique as Norman but your problem may lie with the RGM conversion. I think the inner liner is undersize in the middle so the two small holes he referred to are in effect connected so you might not get the first hole squirt as you apply the lever. I recall someone with a similar dilemma and it needed a slightly different bleed proceedure to remove all the air due to this design. The chattering could also be the brake lever moving across the unlubed/slightly rough piston face. Worth contacting RGM for advice as mentioned.

Neil thanks

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Previously Alan Sessions wrote:

Give RGM a call - it might need back bleeding by pushing fluid from the caliper

Alan thanks

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Previously Tony Ripley wrote:

Hi Mike,

This is unlikely to be a bleeding problem as it is an easy brake to bleed at least fairly well, sometimes tricky to get the last bubble out.

Did you buy the kit from RGM and fit it yourself or do as I did and send it off to RGM for them to modify?

I know from other members that it is not the easiest kit to fit. But you will find RGM are very helpfull so I agree with Alan,give them a call.

Tony

Tony thanks

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I had the same problem with my Mark 3 and tried everything from cable ties locking brake lever on overnight, tipping bike over to both sides etc. The problem turned out to be the original metal hydraulic pipe between the two hoses. The shape of the pipe meant I kept getting air trapped in it. Once I converted to a single stainless hose then the system was easy to bleed and has not been a problem since.

So, if you still have two hoses and the metal hydraulic pipe between them then my advice is to scrap them and get one stainless hose.

Pete

 



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