im running around in circles trying to identify a slimline frame, as the first number its very faint.
as far as i can see it says
so what is a 14??
I think it was a slimline 99 from around 1961 and possibly a Deluxe enclosed version. A close up foto of the frame tube alongside of the frame number and the other matching frame on the offside would give me a better clue.
My notes show the batch following yours to be standard Model 99 Nortons. But most having a Chrome Primary Case and a few are Listed in the Notes as Special.......suggestion some degree of tuning. eg polished ports, polished crankshaft, HC pistons, twins carb, siamese exhausts etc. Some also wearing standard bars and or Chrome Guards. Both batches being built in late October 1960 but most not sent to dealers until many months later. Strangely there are no colours mentioned.
Comparing the engine numbers to bikes I know seem to put it in the late 60 or early 61, I think I can see some witness marks on the frame where the DL panel brackets have been ground off. Did this myself once after the bikes bodywork objected to being injected into the passengers area of a minvan. If there was any justice it would have been the drivers seat.
i will put more pics of the other tubes for you today, so does the 14 mean anything ??
it possibly being a delux model i have one more clue, it has an odd tin cover just covering the headstock held on with two screws, does that ring true for a delux??
14 is the designation for a Model 99. A deluxe model would be designated 14D. The tin cover is standard on all slimlines of the period. A 93,XXX frame number is a 1961 model built around Dec 1960 to Jan 1961.
The club dating officer can confirm actual despatch date.
just found this on a bonhams sale list and looking at various brackets it confirms it in my eyes
It is quite obvious that some people do not read the earlier postings, which often contain the answers to the original questions.
93531 is almost certainly a standard Model 99 Norton but wearing a Chrome Primary Case. It was built in late October 1960 but not shipped to any dealer until many months later.
It probably had the frame fittings for the DeLuxe panels but the lack of a letter 'D' as a suffix to the 14 strongly suggests it was standard model 99 road bike.
93531 was part of a batch of 20 Norton Model 99 bikes that were tuned to sports (or SS) level and probably had twin 376 carbs and polished internals. This batch of machine were built the same week as the 650 Manxman began production and were the fore-runner to the Model 99SS which did not appear until the end of March 1961.
The photos are not clear enough to be really sure of anything. Including the frame number. If the frame does show marks where the DL brackets were cut off ,then in my mind it will always be A DL. .Its possible but a bit unlikely that the brackets would have been cut off at the factory to make it a normal 99. But as the DL was not selling well it is possible. Some better fotos would be interesting. I cut the brackets off my crashed 88DL and re-styled it as a std Dommy 88 in red and Dove. I have seen it advertised as an 88SS in black and chrome , A very desirable and valuable machine with its special stronger crank (which I bet it does not have) If I tell the new owner what it really is ,will he be happy??.
I am pretty sure that the D suffix was only used on paperwork for the Slimline De-Luxe's and was not stamped on the actual bike, I have seen it on quite a few log books but never actually on a frame, if somebody knows different I would love to be proved wrong.
Hi Niall, I would have said you were wrong !, but just have looked at my matching no's DL , and although the "D" appears in the orriginal logbook frame and engine (ist entry Harrold Danniel!), the D does not exist on frame or Engine. So all the years of the MOT examiner checking the frame number against the official record was just a sham!. I met the previous owner rider of the bike , so I have its history. Facinating how if we keep an open mind we can learn something every day. Just as well I don't have to worry anymore about MOT's. and Gov records. Ummm, should I stamp the D on engine and frame ?!!. Or is it far too late. Perhaps the D stamp was left off so the motor could be switched to a std 88, Grind off the frame brackets and voila !. Devious bunch at Bracebridge St.
Just checked the offical records for MY bike The club records has frame number down as including a "D" ,as does the VOSA computer. So they have all been WRONG since 1960, Set of stamps anyone?!!. Do two wrongs make a right?.
This worry about numbers is all very exciting but unless somebody starts a national inspection campaign it really makes little difference to anyone who has a V5C. At least..that might have been so before the B word arrived. If we now need a carnet to go abroad for an event or holiday (and do we) there will come a moment at Dover when a Gendarme cross checks, and the bike will be crushed and the owner go to gaol.
Not worried David, just insanely bored. It does give an insight in to the funny practises that went on back then and the futility of insisting that official records and specifications be adhered to. Sounds like the factory sent out whole batches of DL bikes with information sheets to the dealers so they could register the bikes and it did not match the bikes . And strange that no one has noticed,up till now, apart from Niall !!. If your bike/car is badly damaged and the police want to inspect the re-build (as they did to me) then an incorrect frame number might trip you up?.
I can agree that my Domi 99 deluxe had 14D in the log book but only 14 on the frame.
"The computer says NO"
I am not anally fixated about frame numbers either, but amongst my 'future projects' ie next best thing to junk, is a stripped-off 1960 99DL which I saved a long time ago from going for scrap, since any dating letter will have the 'D' suffix, because the official records always do, and the bike doesn't, nor any other that I have seen, getting a V5C for it by honest means may be very difficult indeed.
Where possible I would make the alteration , and be done with it. My Little Ducati came with a frame number that was impossible to read and no frame tag. I printed a plastic Dymo sticker and stuck it on the headstock. Never caused a problem !. If your DL still has the brackets and you intend to use them ,I would advise finding the tub and left hand panel first as they are the most rare .
I always assumed that the 122, 14, 14D, 18 etc were the model type identifier and not part of the frame number. My V5 hasnt got the 18 on it, just the vertical number.
I certainly won't be going anywhere near the DVLA to get it added, and when MOT's were required, the tester only ever used the vertical one.
Good to learn something new.