Tank lining consequences

Todays fuel is rubbish and the volatile bits needed for carbed engines disappear quickly in a vented tank and then the bike will not start, the fuel is best dumped in a fuel tank for fuel injected engine, however this decay should take weeks not days. A lining from 10 years ago will also not be ethanol proof and may be a problem. To find out which it is open up the carb, if its the lining then the carb should have deposits and also the inlet valve, if its all clear then its the petrol and you had best move to super unleaded as it has no ethanol unless if you are from the SW as the local supplies there currently contain ethanol. Of course at some point super unleaded will have ethanol added too but fingers crossed.

We had same problem with tank lining on our Atlas. plugs stopped firing ,residue would not burn off ,popping and banging. drained tank leave to dryout,switch to BP Ultimate ,sorted, for now,plan to strip out liner and get tank repaired. DO NOT DUMP CONTAMINATED FUEL IN YOUR CAR!!.Old fuel is no problem but disolved tank liner will play havoc with injection systems.

A slightly different situation for me. My strimmer wouldn't rev up to top speed or anywhere near until I used fresh fuel yet the old fuel was only about 3 months old. I used to keep my bikes topped up during periods of little use but there is no point now.

No doubt about it John, Ethanol is the culprit and has been doing damage to the fuel systems, especially of historic vehicles since it was introduced in 2006 by stealth.

There will be some that will tell you that we have had Ethanol before BUT not across the board for standard, regular fuel, you knew what you were buying, you had a choice and in those days not many vehicles were laid up over winter.

Currently in the UK, BP Ultimate is E0, except in the SW BUT their last update to me was less convincing, and they would not be committed as to the future E0 status of Ultimate. There is however some good news in the Esso have written to confirm that their Supreme (Supper unleaded) is E0 except in SW, Teesside and Scotland. (Not good news for them) AND they say they have no intention of adding Ethanol to this grade in the future. So there is a future for us.

December's Classic Bike magazine ran an article on evil Ethanol and showed a kit one can purchase to remove the Ethanol from contaminated unleaded. Good for those in the SW getting fed up of taking their car full of cans out of the County!

Replies from MP's have been consistent with regard to complaints about Ethanol, stating that it is the government's RFFTO Renewable fuels for transport obligation, put into law by Ed Miliband's 2008 climate change Act and also EU legislation. For the same reason the countryside is being covered with windmills and roof's with solar panels!!!! Just so you know...

Finally, just a few words of advice, stay way from all supermarket fuel as in all contains Ethanol and that also includes Shell, who put Ethanol in Super unleaded from 2009. Stay away from anything marked up as EN228 and remember that the anti Ethanol additives costing you a fortune only help to delay the negative effects of Ethanol, not a cure. Try to keep Ethanol out of your tank and if you see a tanker parked up, ask the driver, they know if their fuel contains it because the Ethanol is added at the last moment before leaving the distribution centre. Any earlier and it would absorb too much moisture to be merchantable. Ride safely and if I have any more updates I'll let you know.

PS: I keep my tanks full but with E0 petrol. If you are laying your bike up with Ethanol in the petrol then drain it, as it will absorb water and the less fuel there is in the tank, the more room for water. The water and Ethanol will sink to the bottom, not only corroding your tank but trying to start up on water and Ethanol will do your engine no good whatsoever. Check out the ruined lawnmower engines!

One more thing john, If you are now using E0 petrol, your tank sealer will have turned solid again, break up and tip up any loose stuff and tip it out. What remains stuck to the tank should be OK but fit a fuel filter just in case some more breaks off.

If you are re-coating with new Ethanol proof tank seal you should get all the old sealant out. I now use Wyldes flow liner and slosh, both go on well and I only use it just in case I get caught out again like in 2006/7...

Well it was 2009 when I put a artical in the roadholder about this ethernol and fuel tanks and how too deal with it, I used Harley Davidson tank sealer 100% ethernol proof and after the Tank was repainted I used 100% anti -ethernol lacquer , I can leave fuel in now for month is ok and the bike start and runs ok too since I put fuel cat in the tank Yours Anna J

I put a Fuel Cat in both my 650 Dommie and 750 Commando. In four years I had no problems starting or running. The little gadget boosts the standard 95ron unleaded up to 5 star and lubricates the valve seats and guides. It also stops the fuel going stale and appears to neutralize the Ethanol. Don't ask me how. They cost me £16 each and paid for themselves after just 1000 miles. No more lead sub, octane boost, melted fuel lines and gooed -up carbs.

Phil, is it possible that your Dommie and Commando might have run perfectly for the four years WITHOUT the 'little gadget'?

Neil. Living as I do in the SW, and, as you say, tired of having to take empty jerry cans in the car whenever I go 'up country', in order to be able to purchase ethanol-free fuel whilst there, I got excited when I saw your mention of the article in the December Classic Bike testing the new ethanol-removing kit. I rushed out and bought a copy, and ever since having been poring through every page searching for this article.... in vain! I found no less than 2 adverts for the kit; 'Ethanil'; but no article.

Anyway, the ads gave their web address, so I have looked through that. It is the old trick of adding water, shaking it up and standing for a while, whilst the water/ethanol mix sinks to the bottom, whereupon one drains it off. It would have been interesting to read an independent test of it though, as it raises a couple of questions. One is, what is the purpose of the rather fancy looking drain tap? Secondly, it says to stop draining as the first drop of petrol comes through. How does one know that?

The other thing is, what effect does it have on the properties of the petrol left behind? My understanding is that ethanol has an octane rating of around 113RON. If 5% of the 95RON petrol being treated is ethanol, removing it will reduce the octane rating of the remaining fuel to about 94RON; likewise 97RON super unleaded will be about 96RON; not exactly super, is it?

As you have no doubt read this mystery article, are these points covered?

Cheers. Ian

John or anyone:

What is this "spirit of salt" stuff used as a tank cleaner?

Is this one of those english-english/american-english translation problems like lift/elevator or braces/suspenders?

Mike

Previously michael_sullivan wrote:

John or anyone:

What is this "spirit of salt" stuff used as a tank cleaner?

Is this one of those english-english/american-english translation problems like lift/elevator or braces/suspenders?

Mike

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrochloric_acid

or

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kilrock-Spirit-of-Salts-500ml/dp/B00E5BJ9I4

Thanks Tony

Got it.......

Secondly, it says to stop draining as the first drop of petrol comes through. How does one know that?

Easy, when the lighted match held next to the stream of water gets brighter but before the explosion.

Thanks John, that was really helpful. I'll bear it in mind.

For spirit of salts/hydrochloric acid, take a look at the contents of a bottle of toilet de-scaler on your local supermarket shelves. As often as not, it says CAUTION contains hydrochloric acid. Good for cleaning the s*** from petrol tanks.

Ian C, I'm sorry I gave you duff info regards the classic bike mag. It was in fact the November edition. If you drop me a line with your address I will send the article to you. In fact sod it, I'll send you the whole magazine since it's Christmas.

I once asked what would be lost along with the ethanol and water and that was never made clear but I'd be happy just to be rid of the nasty solvent.

When everything settles down, a clear line will be visible, showing petrol with ethanol and water below.

It was very irresponsible for one joker to suggest putting a naked light anywhere near ethanol or petrol.

You can actually soften up your old tank sealant by leaving some EN228 in there for a couple of days. Then just pull it out with long nose pliers.

Don't worry about posting it Neil, but if you could scan and e-mail the article, that would be good.

I was really wondering if one actually needs to buy a kit? It is only a plastic container with a tap, and another smaller one which could easily be calibrated, plus a funnel. The additional filter funnel is mighty expensive!

I may experiment....

Just a thought; I wonder if the plastic container they supply is ethanol-proof?!

I guess the reduction in octane rating could be made up for with octane booster, although it all contributes to an increase in the cost of the fuel.

£50 for the kit, fuel cost up by 5% due to throwing 5% of it away; plus octane booster...... all very green, I am sure.....

Yes, look what happened to Walter White in Breaking Bad when he used the wrong plastic container for dissolving a dead body, very messy.

If you want to use your bike for anything more than local runs you just have to adapt your bike for Ethanol, easy enough to to do on a steel tanked Commando, all it takes is ethanol proofed fuel lines and maybe floats.

if you have a fibreglass tank, then you will probably need to replace it with steel, some good and some less good options out there and 4o year old fibreglass could do with being replaced anyway.

Mucking about trying to remove ethanol from fuel, just sounds like a dangerous PIA and means that you will never ride further than 1/2 a tank away from home, much easier to adapt your bike