T2219 camshaft

leslie,peter_howard at Saturday 2nd October 2010. 16:29 Previously wrote:

I now have some additional information.

I've just removed the camshaft from an original 1953 model 7 engine and noticed the camshaft also shows T2219 cast into the shaft.

The camshaft type is meant to be a "D12/790" for this engineand I'm sure this isthe correct cam in my previously untouched engine.

I can onlyassume then that the T2219 code is NOT indicative of the type of camshaft. As I haven't any other camshaftsto compare with, it leaves me withsome otherdifferent questions.

Where is the part number on a Norton Twin camshaft please or if they do not have one,do allthenorton cams carry the T2219 number?

Hope someone knows.

Thanks

Les H

Hello Les,

I'm not a Norton expert. Just been around featherbed twins for a few decades; so as I didn't work for Norton (and 'Daddy didn't run a bike shop'!) I can only tell you what I've seen in engines I've worked on.

Most of the Dommie camshafts were cast in the same moulds from 1952, so the T2219 would relate to whatever came from those moulds, not the lobe profiles. The blank would then go for machining of the lobes, bearing journals, etc.

T2219 also appears on the SS camshafts. Theonly identifying marks were stamped on from the SS camshaft onward and no part numbers were stamped.

X 1 and later on X 2 referred to the levels of hardening. Maybe that was necessary because a progressively softer steel was sourced by AMC for their cams?

I wish some of the Norton workshop people were able/willing to contribute to these threads. I've been trying to contact one chap who worked at Plumstead when Norton transferred. He was the guy who used to modify components which were sent to Paul Dunstall, so whenever you find some of those gorgeous rocker shafts, they were probably his work. Last time we spoke a year or so ago, he told me he still had a lot of Domiracer items which were never sent out!

Paul

Thought I should add to, or edit my previous post.

The earliest Dommie engine I have ever dismantled was from 1952 and it had not been stripped before. That's why I can only use that year for reference. It is quite likely that earlier Dommies (from the plunger model onward) were also castin the T2219.

When I mentioned that my contact from Plumstead was responsible for the modified rocker shafts, I did mean rocker ARMS, although he was involved with the (eccentric) rocker shafts aswell.

Paul

I think Paul was on the mark with his information. It would be nice to have more authoritative answers to technical questions but the fact is that most of the old Norton employees are probably dead or just not involved.

There is a cart-load of misinformation on this forum, I see in another thread someone has just told someone else that later dominators had 7.5" centers for the fork tubes. Whoever works on old Nortons these days has to be smart and have a lot of common sense to be able to pick and sort out the good and bad information that will be thrown at them, you can not even trust books.

I think Roy Bacon's books on Norton details are very average and disappointing. The info in his Norton Twin Restoration book on camshafts has less detail than Paul's.

Personally, any fifties Norton heavy twin I would have apart I would stick the sixties cam and tappets in. The performance would be good and the flat tappets are cheaper to re-face than radius ones.

Roy Bacon's book says there was the original domi cam, the Daytona cam which he says came out in "about" 1956, then one with quieting ramps which may be marked QR.

After that comes the SS cam, which as Paul said has either x1 or x2 on it, and after that you will find the Commando cams with the tachometer gear machined in.

My friend that worked in the Norton experimental department died a few weeks ago and I imagine everyone who worked with him there in the late fifties and early sixties is at least close to eighty years old so maybe we missed the boat. Once AMC moved Norton production from Bracebridge street and all the old employees were axed I doubt if there was anyone left that knew much. I would bet that even a lot of old papers and drawings were thrown away in the trash with the move.

Previously wrote:

Hi All.

I was just reading some interesting articles on Norton Camshafts, and checked out a photo of a camshaft I sold around a year ago on Ebay.

The camshaft had a part number of T2219 cast on it.

I cannot find any reference to this camshaft number so could someone throw any light on it please?

As far as I can remember it came from a 1958 "99" but the cam should have either been a 21225 or 22729 if someone had fitted the SS version.

Thanks

Les H

Hi Les ,

Coincidently just found your questions whilst trying to find out more about my worn camshaft. It is original and out of a 1962 dominator 88ss.The markings are T2219 and in a circle the letters JA then the number 2 beside that. Hope this is of some help.

Here is an intweresting link to Norton camshaft survey

http://atlanticgreen.com/camsurvey.htm

Regards

Colin

Previously wrote:

Previously wrote:

Hi All.

I was just reading some interesting articles on Norton Camshafts, and checked out a photo of a camshaft I sold around a year ago on Ebay.

The camshaft had a part number of T2219 cast on it.

I cannot find any reference to this camshaft number so could someone throw any light on it please?

As far as I can remember it came from a 1958 "99" but the cam should have either been a 21225 or 22729 if someone had fitted the SS version.

Thanks

Les H

Hi Les ,

Coincidently just found your questions whilst trying to find out more about my worn camshaft. It is original and out of a 1962 dominator 88ss.The markings are T2219 and in a circle the letters JA then the number 2 beside that. Hope this is of some help.

Here is an intweresting link to Norton camshaft survey

http://atlanticgreen.com/camsurvey.htm

Regards

Colin

Just found this on another post and it may help Quote:

'I am thinking of getting my camshaft "refaced" as it's cheaper than buying a new one but I'm not sure if anyone has the data for making it a "QR" profile, as per my original 1959 99 'Special'.

So the number T2219 could be a stock material number and by the side of it on my camshaft there is a circle with the latters "JA "inside . Could this be the profile referred to above but for a Dominator 88SS ?

Regards

Colin

Hi Les, it IS disappointing but not unusual. As far as I can recall, from over 52 years of working on them, very few engine parts from cars or bikes have their part numbers actually cast ontothem so identification can really only be done by accurate measurements. The same applies to cylinder heads and most alloy castings. They have the same casting numbers for a multitude of different units.

It was a quote from one of my postings that mentioned getting a camshaft re-faced. Obviously this is definitely NOT to be recommended for any machine that is intended for use as a racer - cafe or otherwise! My personal belief is that any such machine should be fitted with purpose-made modern parts rather than risk your life with critical components of dubious condition that are possibly over 50 or 60 years old! But then again, some people ENJOY Russian Roulette!

Cheers,

Lionel

Hello its been a wile since anymore post on this bit of a forum and I like to add to my finding of Norton twins Camshafts early cast iron then tempered in the old forging ways to hardred the iron and then add chromolidenium for the outer surface this was about 10 thou and Newman cams are made in the same way ,as for the daytona cams these were made in 1954 for works dominators daytona racers witch I found to have international gear box clusters fitted as I own a 1954 daytona Dominator with its works parts and the t2219 cam was not in this motor the cam was cast marked T2242

with an MX stamped on it, I never seen another like it but it was well worn and had to replace in with a later dominator s2 cam newman cam witch works well the x1 cams were first fitted to the manxman 650 and all that follow from models 88 to 750 and then you have works racing cams in between and the delvelopment of the S2 cam and S3 and s4 for commando but like this club is you have do a lot of scrataching around to find any creidble infromation on Norton cam shaft time line yours anna j

Hi, I believe later Camshafts are made from Chilled Iron, which gives a soft core with a hard 57 Rockwell surface. If you make new ones use BO1 toolsteel annealed, and grind after heat treatment. I have a number of Atlas/ Commando camshafts, not one looks the same. Les Emery could not tell which was which either. No criticism meant, just that Norton do not seem to have liked part numbers. I would not have let them near an Aeroplane in the day,. their record keeping was very poor. I am trying to build a N15cs, what a shambles the parts lists are.

Hello Paul well I could not agree with more, your right poor data within this club it was the same with the Norton Manxman it was like pulling teeth tiring to get and right information only Dave and Joan Catton have given me anything relating to this subject, the rest came from Peter Roydhouse Records that Phil Hannahpast on to me very kindly, the rest was years of research and contacting old owners of these machines and anyone within the motorcycle trade at that time period but I do hope you get lucky the fist export scamblers when to the states in 1963, the first Atlas was but on 20th of april 1962 at bracebridge street and engine numbers start around 20- 101400 but dave catton could tell youI do have a set of crankcases 20-105xxx 1963 , yours anna j

Hi Anna, I have a complete "running" 1966 N15cs motor I bought from the States, cost $1000 including shipping. I am short of a tank and battery boxes, also mudguards. I have two spare atlas engines and a row of camshafts that look all different on the profiles, and some are soft. Happy days.

Previously paul_reynolds wrote:

Hi Anna, I have a complete "running" 1966 N15cs motor I bought from the States, cost $1000 including shipping. I am short of a tank and battery boxes, also mudguards. I have two spare atlas engines and a row of camshafts that look all different on the profiles, and some are soft. Happy days.

hello, that shipping was very cheap who shipped it for you! I make a note yours anna j

Previously anna jeannette Dixon wrote:

Previously paul_reynolds wrote:

Hi Anna, I have a complete "running" 1966 N15cs motor I bought from the States, cost $1000 including shipping. I am short of a tank and battery boxes, also mudguards. I have two spare atlas engines and a row of camshafts that look all different on the profiles, and some are soft. Happy days.

hello, that shipping was very cheap who shipped it for you! I make a note yours anna j

Hi Anna, I believe the vendor had a deal with the US Post office and UPS at the time. I have bought from EBVC, who is very good, and Flashback Inc who uses US Post Office. The pound fluctuation recently can catch one out. The Pound was 1.6 when I bought the engine. Best regards, Paul Ps What is the Lucas Distributer number for the late Magneto Replacement version, I have one, but have lost my Lucas manual. ? Many thanks.

Previously paul_reynolds wrote:

Previously anna jeannette Dixon wrote:

Previously paul_reynolds wrote:

Hi Anna, I have a complete "running" 1966 N15cs motor I bought from the States, cost $1000 including shipping. I am short of a tank and battery boxes, also mudguards. I have two spare atlas engines and a row of camshafts that look all different on the profiles, and some are soft. Happy days.

hello, that shipping was very cheap who shipped it for you! I make a note yours anna j

Hi Anna, I believe the vendor had a deal with the US Post office and UPS at the time. I have bought from EBVC, who is very good, and Flashback Inc who uses US Post Office. The pound fluctuation recently can catch one out. The Pound was 1.6 when I bought the engine. Best regards, Paul Ps What is the Lucas Distributer number for the late Magneto Replacement version, I have one, but have lost my Lucas manual. ? Many thanks.

hello well I can send you one if you like via email but have photocopyfirst may take some time to do yours anna j