Mercury barn find help appreciated

Hi Mike,

upload your pics to Photobucket (or similar) for free, then include a link on your post that will send us off to your pics.

Skip Brolund

Struggling with photobucket - can only see the first picture. A Mercury should have a single carb (correct me if I am wrong). The blue doesn't look right - a respray is in order. You clearly don't want this bike - pass it on to me!

Isn't the front brake a Commando TLS item?

Previously wrote:

Isn't the front brake a Commando TLS item?

It certainly looks like it.

I'm guessing that from the engine number and the first two figures that the year of production has already been worked out to circa 1968 and is a 650cc twin?

................and I'd just like to add that all I've ever found in any barn is what I've managed to step in.

The front end looks high - has it got long Roadholders? Both on the road and on the centre stand the lower frame rails on Featherbeds are usually more or less parallel to the ground. Would seem like a strange change if they are the wrong length.

The head didn't change from 650SS - they just saved the cost of one carburettor. So havong two must surely be a bonus?

All the Mercuries in Bacon's 'Norton Twins Restoration' had blue oil tank, tool box and primaty chain cover but then they also all hae silver painted tank like 650SS. So with since it already has rev counter plus twin carb and flat seat (Mercury had humped seat) I'd make it a 650SS if it were mine. All you need are the correct mudguards (which are, of course, pretty difficult to obtain..)

I would suggest that you get it up and running and mechanically sorted. Ride it fir a season, see what you like and don't like about it and then contemplate the cosmetics (oddly enough, the part I never quite get round to). The Mercury was the last of the line and therefoe quite iconic, so there is a lot to be said for getting it back to something approaching original condition. However, if you prefer the 650SS look, just go for it. Someone else in the distant future can worry about originality. The 650s are really rather fine machines so just get out and enjoy it. On, one carb or two? It's got two so that's fine, but personally I prefer just one. It doesn't seem to affect the performance and it's a lot less fiddly to set up and keep in tune.

I agree with Gordon, just do enough to get it on the road and get some fun in before you go further. Too many machines never really recover from "restoration" and proceed to basket cases or unrideable polished exhibits. Even better , get someone with Norton expertise to fettle the bike into riding condition.

Sorry Michael, that sounded a bit condiscending, You probably don't need any help. The only weak points on the 650 is the primary chain (usually too tight due to gearbox pulled back ) the clutch which is close to its design limits and retaining oil in the primary, which can be done with effort.

"Long" and "Short" road holders a somewhat over simplified description. Road holders came in at least four standard lengths, shortest was for the Manx, due to the dropped top yoke on those bikes. Then there were those used on road going featherbeds, and those longer ones used on pre-featherbed frames. Then there are the ones used on Commandos which are longer than featherbed ones. Add to that custom length extended fork tubes made by Americans to create the custom "Chopper" look.

Stanchion length: Manx 20.5"

Featherbed 21.875

Commando 23.25

Pre-Featherbed 23.25

Colin.

Previously wrote:

What are the main obvious differences between long and short road holders?.

It's good to have original footpegs - the replacements I have are horrible brittle castings. Picture 2 has rear brake cable rod and picture 3 with domed nut looks like the footpeg rod (with frame spacer tube). Speedo cable is there but you can buy new ones; also speedo gearbox on rear wheel looks like it's there but who knows if it works? They are available.

The mudguards are different from the earlier bikes but someone else here might be able to say if yours are correct - maybe they are.

Headlight shell - don't know. Certainly they are not like the earlier '60s Dommies which had a single speedo clock in the middle with the optional rev. counter on a plate. Mercury had the speedo on the right side of a plate and light switch on the left. You have a speedo mounting plate for two clocks - but it's not the same shape as the ones in the book.

Watch out for replacement levers - the Norton ones are 7/8" between hole centres. Most are 1+1/8 and need a heavier pull.

You need Bacon's 'Norton Twins Restoration'. Everyone expects a parts list to be useful but the pictures are mostly pretty hopeless.

Question in my mind is - how come the bike has just relatively few bits not missing but just taken off and stuck in boxes? Are you sure it is not just 'loose assembled'? It does have useful stuff like engine, clutch, brakes etc - doesn't it? Why would anyone re-assembling a bike stop apparently only a day or two from having it running?

Previously wrote:

http://s1281.photobucket.com/user/Mjc477/media/image_zpsa8fcc2a2.jpg.html

http://s1281.photobucket.com/user/Mjc477/media/image_zpsb9075981.jpg.html

http://s1281.photobucket.com/user/Mjc477/media/image_zps1ce9890e.jpg.html

http://s1281.photobucket.com/user/Mjc477/media/image_zps800502dd.jpg.html

A box of bits anything look familiar to you?

Parts manual on order???

When both dials were on a plate the light switch was in the middle of the plate since the headlamp shell was not accessible.

Bacon says the first Mercury was number 129147 in Sept 68 which is only just before yours. The hump on the saddle was also 1968. But Commando had started so presumably anyone who wanted a quicker bike went for them so AMC saved money by only providing a single carb. But you're lucky to have two. It looks like yours is as you guess - a Mercury with the extra bits added to bring it up to 650ss spec. Hardly a 'slung together bitsa'. Just a well sorted bike that's fallen on very slightly shabby times and deserves to be reassembled, cleaned up and played with and not just stripped of its history. (My personal opinion of course - but it's your toy and sadly it's not mine!)

Some of the stainless suppliers do lists for Nortons most of the fixings will be made, avoid things like headbolts and wheel axles as they can be trouble.

The speedo and rev counter are Triumph/BSA type in the rubber cups, but take them out and they'll fit, I think your bike would have had the grey faced Smiths clocks.

There are two arms with different offsets. The one with the smaller offset was earlier and points down. It was changed to one pointing up - allegedly to make it less likely you'd burn your fingers on a hot exhaust I believe (no idea why anyone would really be that careless but...) - but to give clearance past the rear shock absorber the offset was increased. Allegedy that puts more out-of-balance bending on the rear brake backplate with a drop in braking efficiency. Maybe they might even crack? I expect yours is as late as they get (although earlier Commandos had the same rear brake). If yours has a big enough offset that it allows the brake rod to clear the shock absorber then it's supposed to go up. But unless someone else knows differently then it really makes no difference as long as the included angle between arm and rod is smaller than a right angle.

There are two arms with different offsets. The one with the smaller offset was earlier and points down. It was changed to one pointing up - allegedly to make it less likely you'd burn your fingers on a hot exhaust I believe (no idea why anyone would really be that careless but...) - but to give clearance past the rear shock absorber the offset was increased. Allegedy that puts more out-of-balance bending on the rear brake backplate with a drop in braking efficiency. Maybe they might even crack? I expect yours is as late as they get (although earlier Commandos had the same rear brake). If yours has a big enough offset that it allows the brake rod to clear the shock absorber then it's supposed to go up. But unless someone else knows differently then it really makes no difference as long as the included angle between arm and rod is smaller than a right angle.

Previously wrote:

There are two arms with different offsets. The one with the smaller offset was earlier and points down. It was changed to one pointing up - allegedly to make it less likely you'd burn your fingers on a hot exhaust I believe (no idea why anyone would really be that careless but...) - but to give clearance past the rear shock absorber the offset was increased. Allegedy that puts more out-of-balance bending on the rear brake backplate with a drop in braking efficiency. Maybe they might even crack? I expect yours is as late as they get (although earlier Commandos had the same rear brake). If yours has a big enough offset that it allows the brake rod to clear the shock absorber then it's supposed to go up. But unless someone else knows differently then it really makes no difference as long as the included angle between arm and rod is smaller than a right angle.

Hello Now Just let me step in here the brake arm on my Manxman 650 is pointing up and these were the first 650,s so this machine will be the same, and this Mercury is in not bad condition to say its been dormant all this time , the colour looks OK to me, Its needs a Good clean Electrics sorting out , the Speed and rev counter looks like the right ones the mudguard were stainless steel I have a front mudguard if you want it its free, to a good home ,the mudguard were the same as BSA& Triumphs of the time, and still around to day, to make a nice seal on the primary cover ,you need some RVT Black silicone, on the inside of the rubber band to seal this off first , then for the out side edge ,I use red Silkolene grease, so you can take the cover of easy and pop it back again , it seals very nice and will not let oil out if you get the right amount of grease on and get the cover squarely and do not over do the big nut two threads showing should be enough , the Clutch on the 650 can be a problem at times , as it cannot take the power, the 650 can dish out , it can have a hard life, so check it and make shure there is no play on the main shaft, the spider gets a real battering in there ,the old type clutch had a cover and clip over the out side of the clutch its kept the oil of the clutch plates ,for some reason it was abandoned, why we do not know , but keeping the clutch roller fed with oil it the problem , this is your archetypal Norton Oil Bath Clutch system ,now this why many are going with the new belt drive system ,and its as its own problems to like striping all the teeth of the rubber band ,and your going no were fast, ,to me its like out of the pan and into the fire,well Just get your nice motorcycle up and running and enjoy the view of the country roads , single carb set up is the best, for todays roads , and economy, and use a good 20/50 like Morris or Castorl or Millers Oils Spark plugs I use Bosch W7DTC , for easy starting and clean engine and economy and take a look at the Green spark plug Company The owner Tim is very helpful. As for a wiring harness see TMS of Nottingham, Speedos& Rev-counters see Alan Gagg. Nottingham. these guys have been in this business the longest , So have Fun , Yours Anna J Dixon

Previously wrote:

Hi

Thanks once again for the input

Anna and thank you....I do have a front mudgaurd but it is very very pitted and it was on my shopping list.....so a decent stainless one would be fantastic....I have no idea how to directly contact anyone on this site as its all new to me....but I will accept your kind offer and of course cover any costs.....

I was probably going to,set the arm upwards as it seems to leave a more asthetiic gap between the arm and the silencer....

As for the engine it is all,very oil tight and the only slight weep is on the sump drain plug but I'm very confident this is just the washer...so no great shakes there

I have decided no cosmetics on the bike right now I'm just going to give it a good clean and use everything that is useable or not beyond repair.....I'm pretty sure the loom is screwd but I will check this out.....

I like the idea of the oily rag norton that can be used anytime.

So,that's the plan!!

hello well you taking notes of what were saying that good , For cleaning the best DE-greaser is Sprit vinegar , just brush it on and wash off it will get rig of most of the hard grime .for alloy cleaning rhubarb duce yes you may laugh at this one but it works ,you get for canned rhubarb it as a mild acid base that work OK on alloy , have slow cooked Cylinder heads in this and they come out like new , its alot cheaper than having them vaper blasted . so go have lots of fun , yours Anna J Dixon

Previously wrote:

Rhubarb juice

Ok I will give it a try

I remember being told ketchup,was good for brass ....I gave that a go and it worked a treat....I guess it's a similar acid content that works

So rhubarb juice it is.......I'll let you know the results

Cheers Anna

I also tried to contact you direct about the mudgaurd but the site would not let the message send for some reason...?

Hello I am now back on line My computer did a fit on me ,now fixed , the Mudguard your if you want it , just contact me at , annajeannette@btinternet.com

Mercury

TLS brake plate is for the early commando. Properly set up it is much better than the SLS stock brake plate and is period correct.

Tank should be silver for both Mercury and 650 SS. Mudguards, oil tank, side cover, chain guard and primary cover should be Atlantic blue. Chainguard and primary cover were chrome for the 650 SS

Twin carbs were used on the 650 SS. Single carb was correct and much easier to set up with no appreciable loss of power.

Seat is for a 650 SS. Stock seat has hump in back and is, in my opinion, sportier/better looking.

Rev counter sender and rev counter would have been accessory items that could have been added by a dealer but were not included with a stock Mercury. That was the set up for a 650 SS

Headlight shell would be painted black, have a hole for a voltmeter and hole for the high beam indicator light. Headlight shell shown in picture is not for a Mercury or a 650 SS

Speedometer and rev counters shown are for 1971 and up Triumph/BSA. Correct for 1968-69 are grey faced clocks with no rubber surrounds.

Rear brake arm should be pointing up. Rubber plugs for the rear wheel mounting bolts are missing and should be grey in color though black ones are the only color made for reproduction plugs.

Youtr mudguards are chrome as for a 650 SS but they should be highly valanced and your's don't appear to be so.

I believe all of the Mercury's were manufactured in late 1968 and titled according to the year they were dispatched to distributor or sold. Mine is 37th to last one made and has a commando style build plate on the headstock with a build date of 12/68

It would be expensive to take this bike back to Mercury specifications, but it appears that you have most of the stuff to take it to 650 SS specifications without having to take a loan out against your house. Ride it for a year and learn more about which direction (if either of these two) you want to go. Nothing corners like the featherbed frame and properly set up this bike is bulletproof.

According to Roy Bacon, the lastMercurys registered as1970 models did not have the Atlantic Blue colour on the various parts. The colour of the parts was as per 650ss spec.

Previously wrote:

Cheers Norman

That's very helpfull and I much appreciate all the I formation....

I have decided to get the bike all up together and just use it for a while and possibly get it over time looking like a 650ss if I really like the bike....

I think I have access to a humped seat so I will follow that up.

Could you tell me ....would the bike have had shrouded or exposed springs on the rear shocks ......personally I like the exposed spring as it looks sportier?

And would you recommend a make ?.

Hello Michael This thread is get on the long side , and some members may get up set at the words Mercury , and 650ss Like they did with the Word Manxman and there is the danger of getting this thread locked by the web master too, we cannot write too long on one subject, you get you finger rapped in this club, yours Anna J

My Mercury has shrouded shocks. The Roy Bacon book pics of the Mercury show shrouded shocks also. I think Hagon make a number of shocks that would be suitable including shrouded examples.

Dominic