K2F Magneto

I'm sorry to have to tell you but the price you paidseemsvery expensive...well that is my opinion as a rewind & new capacitoris about £130....bearings and seal about £20 and even if ALL the otherexternal partswere replaced (not likely) another 50 quid so that's about £200...dismantling rebuilding (if set up for this type of work) about 1 hour tops.

Les

I totally agree with Les. The price does seem excessive. No wonder he gave prompt service.

Paul.

Previously paul_webb wrote:

I totally agree with Les. The price does seem excessive. No wonder he gave prompt service.

Paul.

I just paid today £145 for my K2F to be overhauled by Tony Cooper from Halesowen

Previously simon_shadbolt wrote:

Previously paul_webb wrote:

I totally agree with Les. The price does seem excessive. No wonder he gave prompt service.

Paul.

I just paid today £145 for my K2F to be overhauled by Tony Cooper from Halesowen

I have always used Tony Cooper. He's a top guy, and a pleasure to trade with. As you have just proven Simon, his prices are realistic.

Regards,

Paul.

not to worry Peter as long as you are happy with it thats the main thing. mind you at that price i would expect a couple of years warranty with it. Baz. http://www.davelindsley.co.uk/

£470?? Phew that sounds outrageous. So far I've kept the original Lucas coil ignition on my 1959 '99', although I did change it to a K2F after its first rebuild in 1965. Thanks for the tips on reasonable K2F fixers, in case I need them one day!

It is also very high by US standards. I was desperate for a magneto recently so that I wouldn't miss the entire warm season. I got an awful one from Fossil Brian in South Jersey. Very crunchy bearings and no magnetism, $65, also had been lying in the mud for years. He said he could get it fixed by his magneto man at the local airport. Long story short, 25 days later I have a refurbished mag and what a showpiece!! All for $345 total (including purchase price). It probably didn't need everything of course. I enjoyed spinning it and feeling the smoothness of the bearings and the tug of the magnet and the gorgeous spark at any speed. It is now on the 650SS. The small joys in life.

FEKED has a fully recond K2F for outright sale for GBP385. No exchange. http://www.feked.com/

Paul

Previously Paul Knapp wrote:

FEKED has a fully recond K2F for outright sale for GBP385. No exchange. http://www.feked.com/

Paul

Hi Paul, I think that it is also subject to VAT, according to the display page - unless of course you are outside the EU.

Terry

For what its worth...................................

I do about 30 Lucas & BTH mags a year, I live in the USA & have (had) 2 armature winders, one in Maine & one in the UK. The one in Maine took 4 months on the last batch, so now I only use my UK winder

Anyway, the price of a mag rebuild depends entirely on what was replaced. I have seen guys simply replace the condenser & clean the points & claim the mag was rebuilt & charge the customer $200 ( 141 GBP) for a full rebuid I did recently on a K2F, here were my charges in GBP:

Labor-71

remagnetise-15

ultrasonic clean & glassbead-18

armature rewind-124

new slip ring-29

2 new bearings & insulating washers- 30

oil seal-7

two UK made pick-ups w/ brushes & gaskets-30

CB points-22

spark plug boots & leads-8

Brightspark Easycap Condenser-20

UK made end cap w/acorn nut (earthing)-18

2 spark gap screws with washers-7

P&P with insurance -15

---------------------

Total=414GBP

now keep in mind,

if I would have an imbalance in the points gap, add 22 GBP

If it needed a new cam ring,add 60 gbp repro, or 110gbp for Lucas original part

I did not have to do any welding, or Helicoil any internal threads, replace any of the screws in the armature, replace the armature due to a bad taper or keyway, repair male armature threads replace a worn points plate, etc.

In the end, its labor & materials & you get what you pay for.

In order to criticize the pricing, you would need to see an itemized invoice in order to be fair.

I think you'll find if you compared Paul's prices with say, Priory, or The Magneto Guys, or Norvil, you will find he is right in line (or cheaper) with the others, given the amount of work that was most likely done.

In closing, Paul has wound many armatures for me, and his work is excelent. I am sure he would like to defend himself here, but I do believe he is on holiday at the moment

Skip

Hi Skip....it would be very interesting to know how many parts were replaced with new parts on Pauls rebuild, my bet is that the list wouldn't be as long as your one above....

BTW...why did you need to fit a "Brightspark" capacitor if you had the armature rewound?....the best place for the cap is where the original one lives and having so much space meansthat a modern military grade capacitor with an extremely high voltage ratings can be used giving a near infinite working life...far better than cramming in a tiny cap right next to the points where space is virtually non existent.

Les

PS to anybody...Please don't use the quote option (Reply to this) ...So far this thread is working nicely...well mostly...Thanks

Hi Les,

I would beg to differ on Paul's list, as I know his work very well, but I have a feeling he will share with us when he gets back home.

As to the capacitor, much like all electronics now days, they are getting smaller & better. My cell phone has more speed & memory than a desktop I had not long ago

The Brightspark condensers are ceramic, not the old fashioned paper & paste condensers that some re-buiders still use. The Other type (Panasonic, etc.) are far more prone to failure & auctually have a shorter life span that the Brightspark, in addition, being a ceramic type, the Brightspark are less prone to heat failure that the antique type some still insist on using.

But here is the best part, by re-locating the condenser to the points plate, when you eventually do need to replace it, the average guy with a slotted screwdriver can change it himself, even on the side of the road, and at a much lower price. Even if the had a shorter lifespan (which they dont) it would make so much more sense to have it accessible right?

With well over 5.000 of the Brightspark Easycaps on the road around the world, I would have to say they work really well.

Keep in mind, the size of the capacitor has nothing to do with quality or capacitance. It depends entirely on the specifications of the product & the Brightspark Easycaps far excede the original Lucas specs. Another thing to remember, whatever capacitor you decide on MUST be rated correctly, more is not better in this case.

As a tiny bonus, not having the extra weight of an old fashioned condenser and an ounce of epoxy spinning around has got to be a bit nicer for the bearings.

I understand that is doesent seem that the tiny little brightspark can work, but it does! I have several mags that were on the Cannonball last year & 2 that were at the Bonniville speed trials & there are 2 Nortons in AHRMA racing vintage motocross. These capacitors are the best thing to ever happen to a magneto IMHO.

P.S. I have used the "reply to this" option on both of my comments. Also, I like your dog !

Paul restored my dynamo and K2f magneto, returned just after Christmas, I wasvery pleased with his work, and I use the word restored not repaired because when I sent them they had just come out of a damp shed where they had lain since 81 full ofrust and white corrosion.

I didn't even check for a spark or charging justsent them to Paul, had a price back andtold him tocarry on, hekept me informed on a regular basis and when returned to me they looked like new.

I used Ken at Brightspark before his sad passing and now I use Paul, expensive..........yes, but you have to pay for a quality job and he is a gentleman.

Colin

Hi Skip it's plain to seeyou are sold on the Brightspark cap but I am not one of your convertions to it. The Brightspark has it's uses but in most installation's of it a "Condensectomy" has to be performed....and what a palava!...If one has to remove the mag, this is not an easy job on most bikes and far more difficult than actual stripping down a mag. So, to thenmuck about chopping the old cap out of the mag, and refit it back to together and fit the mag back on the bike not knowing how long that ancient coil is going to last is just false economy I think and could lead to a short improvement but long disappointment...why on earth anyone would not simply ship thearmature to be re-wound and fitted with a new capacitor seems a waste of shear effort, as I guess the mag would benefit from a rewind anyway and then last the life of the owner.

As far as electronics goes, it has a been another hobby of mine all my life from a young school boy so I reckon I know enough as far as the different types of caps and magnetos work, their strengths and weakness etc. What I do know is that the most crucial criteria of a capacitor for long life is it's ability toposses a very high voltage rating, essential when usedina magneto where it's constantlyhit by the backEMF of the primary coil when the points open. The capacitors dielectric is the part that is under the stress and using the very best like for like materials making the capacitor physically bigger allows the dielectric to be thicker and maintain the value of capacitance but raises its working voltage substantially (Working voltage is the safe working voltage...the bigger the better as it means that any voltage applied to it is stressing it less compared to a device oflower voltage rating). It is easy to pick ona situation where thewrong choice of component is usedand suggest that they fail, but with the right choice I'm saying the life would amount to a lifespan outweighing the life of the engine if not more. As far as dynamic balance goes this is of no concern, as most are placed fairly centrally and the mag only turns at half engine speed so they run about 2000RPM most of the time.

AnywayI'm never going to be converted and when I get a rewound done (soon) I will always choose that a high quality capacitor is fitted in situ, don't want that Bright spark device cluttering up my points area even if you can change it more easily....but hey, I thought you said they lasted for ever....BTW...not trying to be rude butare you an American distributer of these things?

Les

Hi Les,

all good points & no your not being rude at all. All good opinions!

I fully agree that it is false economy to use old winding, which is why I nearly always have the armature rewound during a rebuild, even if the ohms reading is good. Sometimes the windings become loose with age & move about eventually causing a short. As mentioned, its a pain in the butt to remove the mag, service it properly & it will last for many years.

Removing the ancient Lucas capacitor (or condenser) is really quite easy when the armature is out, unless of course someone has potted in a so called "modern" one in place with a giant gob of epoxy (heat helps quite a bit I have found).

I have found that most magneto & dynamo work is well within the abilities of the average motorcycle mechanic which is Brightsparks philosophy, I mean if you can rebuild a Norton twin, you shouldnt be afraid of a magneto, or dynamo. Bike owners have worked on them for years. The exception is rewinding armatures, dont go there

Basically most of what you said about condensers is spot on, but lets simplify this:

a) Brightspark Easycaps exceed the specifications required for this task.

b) over 5,000 in use, they obviously work well.

To be clear, I NEVER said they last forever, But I have not had to replace one yet.

They don't really clutter up the points area in my opinion, plenty of room to perform any task you may need to do.

When I first started working on mags, I ran across the Brightspark Easycaps, "genius" I said & called the Electrical Engineer who patent'd them (Ken) and it is all I have used ever since. I liked them so much, I buy them in bulk from the UK & offer them here in the USA on Ebay & various autojumbles so that Americans can get them much quicker & far less postage that ordering them from the UK.

It's quite alright if you choose to use the old type, I have one on my '57 Model 77 in fact, no worries. But if you ever want one for your own use, or for side by side testing (or to throw darts at!) contact me directly & I will buy you one, and pay the shipping, just to get your impressions

As an aside, anyone can go to brightsparkmagnetos.com & use the extensive "library" tab. Lots of free downloads of Lucas & BTH stuff such as parts lists & workshop manuals .

Have a great day,

Skip