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Fuel tap with reserve to fit a Navigator?

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Can anyone recommend a good quality fuel tap (not one with a dreaded cork seal!) with a reserve setting which fits straight into the Navigator fuel tank and looks appropriately ‘period’?    I know I should be more diligent over keeping tabs on how much is in the tank on a long run but I’m fed up with running out of fuel......!  

Cheers, Nick

Thanks Dan, sadly I’m working so can’t get there.   I’ve searched eBay and all the normal sources on the internet found nothing with a reserve facility and the 7/16” thread for the tank - incredibly frustrating!   Great run on the Navigator today starting in clear blue skies, luckily ran out of gas en-route to the petrol station and only had a half mile push on a flat road!   A tank full of 97 octane followed by a brisk drive home in torrential rain - the dear old Navi didn’t miss a beat!

Nick

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If you can find an original long bodied Ewarts tap Fitted to many Nortons Stamped UK pat 758264&abroad. Pull on .then turn and pull again for reserve, I have some spare original plungers .  This is the tap I use on my 99 . Have not had a problem for years with mine.Make sure it comes with screw to secure plunger,these are especially difficult to replicate.

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Thanks for the kind offer Robert, I will search through my 'never throw anything away' boxes and see if I have one lurking in there and get back to you!   Nick

 

Love the pragmatic and practical solution Graham, I must admit I have considered a small portable fuel supply solution and may have to go down that route if I can't find a 7/16" thread tap with a reserve facility.  

Nick 

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My problem has been finding a fuel tap short enough that the fuel flows downward to the card and not up.  And, of course, finding one to match the thread in the tank is a challenge.

I share your pain Jack, I spent ages trying to rebuild my very worn original tap using the various cork seals offered by NOC shop but without success - no matter what I did the tap weaped fuel.    I then tried the period looking tap they advertise and frankly that was little better and didn't have a reserve.   I finally used their excellent 'modern style' fuel tap (NOC shop ref 041323L) and the 90 deg adaptor (NOC shop ref 93/4) which works perfectly and lines up nicely with the carb's float chamber...…….but sadly it doesn't have that illusive reserve!!!

Nick       

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Thanks for tip Nick.  My current tap is barely workable.  So, I definitely plan to look into your solution.

Jack

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Woops, sorry for the typo Jack, good luck - I've been very pleased with it for over a year now so it should work well for you.

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I have a double pull tap on my Navi with a 90 degree elbow. Fuel flows almost horizontally towards the carb. Haven´t used the reserve tap so far.

Navi fuel tap

 

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Looks ideal Ulrich, do you know where the tap is on sale?    Have you had a chance to ride the bike since you replaced the pistons?  

Nick

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Nicholas,

I bought the tap on Ebay.UK. Look for Ewarts taps. I also ordered new plungers and corks.

I rebuilt the engine in November and made a short ride on a warm day in December.

The bike ran fine with the correct ignition timing (check, check, double check!!)

I returned to my workshop and the timing side looked like this:

Navi timing side

Looks like oil came out of the top screws of the cover and also the ignition housing.

Currenty I have no time to adress this problem, I am moving into a bigger workshop, luckly it is next door. When I have set up my stuff, tools and workbench I will have a look.

 

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Thanks for the advice Ulrich and great to hear the top end rebuild and timing has been a success but sorry to see the oil leak problem.   Sadly it will mean retiming the engine if the timing cover has to come off to replace the gasket and oil seals.   I had much the same problem with mine with oil leaking past the timing side cam shaft oil seal.   After replacing it twice without success I realised it was getting damaged by the end of the cam shaft when I slid the cover on.   After much research I realised it needs a guide to hold the spring loaded seal open so the cam shaft can slip into it without tearing the rubber.   I use a short length of 22 mm copper pipe now and the problem is solved.   A word of warning though, I found that oil seal very difficult to remove without scoring the casing and difficult to drift in without distorting the seal's metal shell.   It also has to be inserted with the spring side facing inwards towards the cam shaft and the plain metal side facing outwards.   Being neurotic about good lubrication I always replace the main crankshaft oil seal whenever I disturb the timing cover - again making sure it is replaced the right way round, which is the opposite to the timing oil seal.  A careful read of para 22 Timing Cover Oil Seals and 23 Timing Gear and Cover, Re-Fitting in the original Norton maintenance manual gives you the right guidance but doesn't give you the tip about using a guide for the timing seal.   I expect you already know all that but hope it is helpful!    Keep at it, the Navigator is a great bike once sorted!   Nick  

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Hi Nick,

I've fitted the modern tap and 90 degree outlet fitting listed on the NOC Shop.

The original Ewarts pull-for-on was so stiff it seemed to flex the bottom of the tank when opening. And it leaked after a while.

The rotary on-off in modern material is much better.

If anyone can find a similar rotary tap with reserve function to fit the Lightweight tank thread (1/8 BSP) let us know please. Not many bikes use this small thread. Bantams did. Other Nortons and most British are 1/4 BSP connection to the tank.

Happy riding

Peter

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Hi Peter, that's exactly my experience with the original tap, various reproductions which ended up leaking once the cork seal had deteriorated and then finally that excellent modern tap which works a treat!   Just one point, isn't the Lightweight tank thread size 7/16" which is so rare with 1/8" BSP fittings?   Oh the joy of Lightweight foibles!!!

Nick

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I bought one like Ulrich’s,  new from CMS Exeter, it leaked badly even with new corks. So am looking for a better design with out the push pull cork plungers.

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Thanks for the feed back Dan, I must admit my experience with cork seals has been entirely negative and even with new corks from several different reputable sources they have all ended up leaking within a few weeks.

Nick

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My Ewarts fuel tap with reserve also started to leak despite of new corks.I bought 3x3mm NBR 70 O-rings and fitted them. Hope they last longer. You can put three rings on the holder. In the picture you see a spare fuel tap body without filter mesh. It is also an old dried out cork. My tap is with mesh. I had to drain the tank first.

fuel tap fix

Fuel tap fix II

 

Check this out, lots of posts on Access Norton site. They found that the rubber gets shaved off as it passes the inlet & outlet ports. The rubber expands, as it will, into the port on the way past and gets shaved by the lips, then eventually leaks.

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You can get good service from a cork tap. The quality of the cork is important ,not fissured. The size is also critical, too loose--leak,too tight can't operate.  and the fit from dry to wet varies. Not that easy to size once wet!. Tank rust sediment will also wear out the cork .  Allowing the tap to dry out while stored over winter ,not good. . The double action tap with one cork has less things to leak. Mine has worked ok for some years now ,so it is possible.

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Great solution Ulrich, I will see if I can find a decent Ewerts double action tap and give it a try!   I hope your front mudgaurd has been repainted and is back on your Navigator and your oiling issues have been cured!

I'm impressed Robert, it obviously can be done - I'm afraid I lacked your patience and couldn't find a supply of good quality, correct size cork seals! 

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Robert I challenge you to get my ewarts Tap (modern copy) to stop leaking! For the moment I’ll try Uli’s fix and see if that works.  I’ve not found anything else that fits.

Dan 

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How is it that this thread has re started without a post with a current date ? .I probably have a tap anyway .will look.

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New posts that are replies to previous posts now appear after the post they are replying to, rather than at the end as used to be the case.  Had me fooled for a while, and means a long thread has to be searched to find the new entry.  Or some may simply get missed altogether - not the cleverest system.

Yes, I plead guilty - in answer to Paul's question above  - "Did the o-rings work well".

 

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I got fed up with trying to resurrect dried out cork taps so went with a modern tap.Modern style tapNo reserve but I believe a reserve version is available.
I notice that the club has old shop style "cork" taps available with a 7/16" thread, my tank has an1/8" BSP thread.

In reply to by john_crocker

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I kept the original Ewarts tap, fitted new corks left the tap always on
(corks always wet and sealing, No moving parts!) and fitted an in-line tap. I carry a reserve in a bottle (no moist air to stale fuel).
Very reliable.

GRAHAM

Graham, I have noticed that my tap (same type as yours) seals in the OFF position, but has a slight leak through the reserve (a drip approx every 10 seconds) when ON and the fuel level is below ON inlet into reserve level. This I believe is because the cork is not sealing the outlet port and the brass sleeve can't seal the reserve duct (if it did you wouldn't be able to pull it to ON never mind turn/pull to reserve). So while there is normal fuel levels it doesn't matter where the fuel comes from so this slight leak doesn't matter. Once you go to reserve the tap works as it should and feeds fuel from below the normal tap inlet level as it should.

So my thoughts with your added tap - if the tank tap does have just a slight leak like mine in the ON position, then if it is left at the ON position you can control normal fuel level feed with the second tap and still have reserve ready to pull ON when the level drops below normal. You would have to test it out every now and again, but then how often does anyone test to see if their reserve function does actually work - anybody know??? The float valve could hide a lot of unknown leaks.

In reply to by stanley_pyke

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leaking Ewarts tap

Stan, there seems to be 4 kinds of tap leakage you describe :-
1. Dry cork, you fill your tank with fuel and it pours straight out all over, you can`t understand because it was never previously a problem.?
2. The tap is shut but fuel goes down to the carb anyway?
3. The tap is dry and sealed when OFF but when you turn it ON, the fuel leaks out of the body? tank contamination perhaps?
4. The reserve tap leaks into the ON tap port effectively losing reserve?

 All these symptoms might be resolved with new corks, not certain and for how long with 60yr components?

Your idea of being able to still use the reserve tap function makes perfect sense. 
As for Ewarts reserve, I think I got 6 miles before having to push the the bike another mile to a petrol station that was closed! Fat use!!
  If you run the tank down as much as you dare , disconnect from the carb and drain down, then use a container to measure the quantity of fuel in reserve, would give an idea of the usefulness of the reserve function.

Graham, I have noticed, as has Robert by his posts elsewhere, that there are a lot of undersized and/or poor quality corks available these days. The bigger ones can be carefully reduced to a good fit.

As for reserve fuel quantity, I found mine was about 6 pints (3.5 ltr) - 2" depth in tank. Drained the tank in the ON position, then measured the depth thru the cap and drained the available fuel left thru the reserve. As I said a small seep via the reserve section when the tap is at ON makes no difference as long as the level is above the On tube entry - as long as this seep won't allow the engine to run so that it will stop you on the road.

It would be possible to cut off the upper half gauze filter, cut the feed pipe and extend the height with a length of brass tube. Solder them together then roll up some gauze and replace a longer upper filter section.

In reply to by stanley_pyke

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Fab useful illustrations Stan ,very helpful.
    I have now put my Ewarts tap on full reserve!. I do not trust the reserve function as a reliable prompt to get more fuel. I use my very own trip meter noting the mileage I was at the last time I filled my tank to the brim. With a 3 gallon fuel tank I KNOW I will not have to fill again for 150miles which is what you want to know when you have fuel in your tank on a trip anywhere?

Keep it simple Keep it it reliable.
  

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Would be nice if someone would post a photo of a correct tap .I may have one and it may help work out a practical alternative .

In reply to by Paul Alibone

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Is that not prone to air locks being so close to the cylinders and inside the manifold.

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The post on the 20.8.2022 had photos of an orriginal tap with the horizontal outlet. not sure if the tank thread was the same for the different lightweights.

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The setup that Paul has on his DL Dommy is ideal as it avoids getting trapped by side panels .,possible that vapourisation may occur with the proximity of the hot manifold . Insulate ?

An old photo before I re-routed it.  I'll take another photo next time the side panel is off.  I had to change the pipe as it was brittle, and the filters were in a poor state so did the lot.  Seems to have cured my stalling too!!
However, the new cork gasket is dribbling so the next time I have low fuel I'll try that again!

 



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