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ES2 problems

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I have taken the barrel and head off of my '51 ES2 to investigate why it was burning so much oil and found that the piston rings had a gap of about 50 thou. They have worn noticable grooves in the bore and while looking at the engine I found the big end to be rather worn as well. All of this was new about 1800 miles ago! It looks a lot like lack of oil but the amount that is being burnt implies there is plenty coming up the bore...

I can rebore it, fit an oversized piston and a new big end, but I don't want to do all of this and find the same problem again in abouth 1500 or so miles...

Has anyone found this before? And what is the underlying issue likely to be?

Looks like a complete strip and rebuild is on the cards again, not the workshop project I'd planned for this winter!

Any help would be greatly apreciated

Andy

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Such a big ring gap suggests to me that a standard piston has been put in an oversize bore. I had a similar problem with an old single Matchless years ago. Get the measuring stick on it....Just a thought.

If you want the job doing properly take it to Mike Pemberton. Top engineer in my opinion.

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Hi Duncan

I built the engine about 6 months ago and it was sleeved back to standard, everything measured up OK then. Now the bore has worn 1-2thou over and the ring gap is huge.

I'm wondering if something is out of line in the bottom end but I'm yet to find anything that looks wrong... I'll ring Mike tomorrow and see what he says.

Andy

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Sounds like a ring problem, I understand that the grade and method of final hone should match the ring type,which is not always considered.could also be that the bore is not round,

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A bit more information would help, what make of piston ,ring manufacterer,oil type used, check fuel tap for flow when closed and float valve ,fuel wash can be very detrimental to bore health and oil contamination bad for bearings.Crank end float is also bad for big end and piston.

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A bit more information would help, what make of piston ,ring manufacterer,oil type used, check fuel tap for flow when closed and float valve ,fuel wash can be very detrimental to bore health and oil contamination bad for bearings.Crank end float is also bad for big end and piston.

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Check your oil pump, and the oilways to the big end. It may be inferior Ring material. try to get best quality rings available. I agree Bore washcould be causing these problems too.

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It was a JP piston, I am using straight 40 oil. The fuel taps are working corectly and the crank end float is within the limits stated in the hand book. The more I look at it the more convinced I am that it is lack of oil causing all the wear.

I have ordered a brand new oil pump from Andover, got a NOS +0.020 hepolite piston coming and will replace the big end as well. Les from Russels had already gone home today but I'm hopefull they will have a new spring for the pressure release valve, just so I am 100% that is ok too. Rather more than I'd hoped to be spending on the bike so soon but I am determined to get it right.

I have spoken the Mike at Pushrod Performance and he has been very helpful with things to look at.

I'll keep you informed if I find anything else as I am stripping it that might point to another possible cause.

Thanks for the replies

Andy

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Its most unusual to get those two problems together at such low milage,If the oil is not getting to the big end --then it won't get to the bore either.Its all too easy to put it all back together and find that the problem re-occurs. Keep looking till you are sure you have found the cause . I well remember taking my Austin Healy engine appart twice before i found that the knocking and fluctuating oil pressure was caused by a broken crankshaft that ran ,drove and was quite happy to be in two pieces.!.Check oil drains freely from the tank all the way down to the pump.

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I'm currently rebuilding a 900 Ducati bevel drive engine that was running ok before i stripped it. During the strip i could find no way that the pump could supply the big end!!, Splash feed!!.

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Hi Barry - Yes, I do. I modified a tap to have an ignition cut out on it. Without the oil on, I have no spark. So I KNOW I have never riden it without the oil on.

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Hi the reason i asked if you have a tap fitted is the flow of oil isn't great through a normal petrol type tap i would use a 8mm inline ball type valve full flow if you haven't already. if you look down a normal petrol tap hole its not that big restricting the oil flow more so when cold to a basic drip feed. the engine might be getting enough to stop it seizing up but not enough to stop it from going metal to metal and over heating. as for the tap idea. on mine i have a buzzer that stays on until i switch the oil on and then a green light stays on so i know oil is on plus clear piping so i can have a visual as well.i wasn't having a go at the tap idea i was only trying to help. Baz

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Thanks

I am using a ball valve as you suggest on it (I have a feeling its a 6mm one), but the bore through it is about the same as that of the rubber pipes so I am confident that isn't restricting the flow, but in the interest of checking everything I will remove the timing chest and oil pump and turn the oil tap on to make sure I have good flow to that point.

I decided from the start I was going to need a fool proof way of not riding it without the oil on, and it's paid off. More than once have I been unable to start it (usually infront of a crowd outside a pub, sods law!) and looked down to see the oil is off!

Thanks for the tips

Andy

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Its also possible to get the pipes crossed!! , You would think a motor would only last a few miles like this,but roller and ball bearings can run with a smear of oil as its mostly there to cool , Too much oil through a roller bearing is just as bad as too little.

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I've taken the timing cover off tonight and checked the flow to the oil pump which is OK. The problem is once the oil is pumped into the timing cover, all the oil ways are free and clear but the pressure relief valve isn't working. The oil is free to flow out past the ball and spring, leaving the rest of the engine with minimal oil pressure.

As dissapointed as I am that something so small has caused so much damage, I'm glad I found something wrong. I can sort this problem and rebuild the engine fairly confident that the same problem wont re-occur.

Thanks for the ideas

Andy

 


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