Don't see many of those about

Fired up the Domi yesterday. Took a bit of kicking as it had wet sumped after sitting for months and the temperature was hovering on zero and it was snowing. So it will be out and about shortly. And yes, that phrase I hear time and time again. Usually followed by a rambling tale of my Dad/neighbour/friend had one just like it... However, the Norton is not my only bike. Other times I am out on one of my BSAs or a Douglas, depending on my mood. I am sure that's half the problem - people have more than one bike, so the Norton does not get exclusive use.

They are about, just not out and about. Now where did I put that tube of solvol autosol?

To prove some Nortons get used here's a picture of my Big 4 at a MAG rally in Suffolk at the end of January. It snowed during the night.

Had the 99 out on Sunday but will be riding a Ducati 748 today as she is booked for an MOT on Wednesday. Then there is the RD350 that needs a regular outing or she gets all sulky. Two strokes are like that. And there are others!

My 99DL has the sulks, everyone thinks its pig ugly ,it thinks it will get kidnapped and turned into a triton. Will it be happier to come out to play painted blue with a red seat?.

Previously wrote:

My 99DL has the sulks, everyone thinks its pig ugly ,it thinks it will get kidnapped and turned into a triton. Will it be happier to come out to play painted blue with a red seat?.

Best not to ask, you know what will happen!

There's an 88 out and about in deepest Hampshire. Son's car is in for repairs and his Yamaha has lost its gearbox sprocket. So his Norton is back in daily use. These old things have their uses!

Being as I don't want to get slush, rain, mud, frost, ice, snow, salt, dirt, minus degrees, grit, and tractors all over my lovely Nortons, I take out the BMW so that I can hide behind the fully raised screen and turn on the heated grips. I can even listen to music on the stereo and ride in the knowledge that my ABS will see me right and after the trip I will only have to clean the body work as opposed toevery nook and cranny ever designed into a British motorcycle. Sad really innit!

The Nortons are all kicking at the stable door.

Kev

Dearie me - a stereo! Wot are we coming to? For the slush/salt/mud/salt/frost/salt etc. I have been using my plunger BSA this winter instead of the Norton - really rather good in snow and it does have a hideous badger-nose screen to hide behind at this time of year. I had a Deauville for a few years for winter commuting but it was rusting away and has since been sold. Of course older BSAs came equipped with ABS. Have you ever tried to lock up the front wheel on a 7" BSA brake? Almost impossible. I did find a tube of Solvol in the shed the other day. Completely unused. It said 7/6 on the faded price tag. It would be a shame to open such a pristine historic artefact.

The 'You don't see many of those' comment has been made by lots of people about many of the bikes I've ridden. I suspect it has as much to do with a) the general population not paying much attention to what is going on around them and b) in the 1950s and '60s motorcycle use was vastly greater than it is today.

Hi Kev,

the problem with fully faired bikes like the BMW is, under the Gucci bodywork they rust like anything, you just can't see it. My Commander was rotten as a pear and had the rear frame section filled with Isopon. Needed some clever fabrication to repair that. One of our branch members has a BMW and that too was covered in rust beneath the bodywork, looks great but what lies beneath? I think the moisture doesn't get away or dry out after a wet ride, particularly in a still air garage. Food for thought.

Indeed as happened to my Deauville. But back to why you don't see many of them about. When the Domi was my only bike, it was in daily use and used for everything. As other bikes arrived in the garage, the Norton wasn't used every day - commuting was shared with the others. As needs changed, a car appeared. And of course I got older. So when once I wouldn't think twice about taking a bike out in vile weather, sometimes I wimp out and take the car. And of course, no longer being troubled by the 9 to 5, the Norton isn't used on the commute so is only out and about when I can come up with an excuse to use it. So it isn't seen about as much as once it was. I suspect that this is a common theme. The bikes are there but just no longer in daily use. And Kev raises the point that for daily use, a modern bike is in fact a much better option. I know there are a few diehards who insist on riding only old bikes for everything - for most of my riding life I was one - but they are precious few.

Life is not so black and white. Were I logical, I would have got rid of my Norton years ago and bought the Velocette of my dreams. However, so much of my life is tied up in the Norton that I couldn't possibly get rid of it. My A7 BSA brought reliability to my life for 10 years solid when the Norton had put yet another rod through its cases and was left to moulder in the back of the shed. The Norton resurrected and properly reliable and the A7 crash damaged, I bought a B31 for keeping me calm on the ride home after long hard days at work, sharing the 60 mile commute with the Norton. Would I sell it? No. The Deauville was flogged as it wasn't getting used. A nice bike to ride but very prone to lock the front wheel. It's easy to end up with a choice of bikes. Then there's my wife's bikes, including the ones inherited from her father - couldn't possibly sell them. And I still haven't got the Velo of my dreams. Different bikes fit different needs - and mine change from ride to ride. I don't ride my Norton regularly - just as often as I can, rain or shine.

You dont see many Suzuki triples, Lambretta scooters, early Fireblades, Yamaha LCs or Honda Superdreams around either, but the roads used to be full of them. And morris Marinas, Ford Cortinas and Austin Metros. Time moves on and the old stuff that was once common is worn out, wreaked or beyond economical repair.

Norton Commandos are ok, but mine doesn't fullfill my needs for a big single or the feeling of riding a girder rigid, nor does it get me as far and fast with tons of luggage as my BMW does. And its not much good off road. Which is why I have five bikes which means my Commando is only occasionally seen in France, Belgium, Spain, Germany, Norway, Ireland, Holland, the USA, and the cafe just up the road.

Simon, if you don't renew, both you and the club will be losers. I hope I haven't given the impression that I'm not interested in Nortons. I am. So far I have covered 120,000+ miles on mine and intend to put plenty more on it. It's just that I am realistic about them and have an appreciation of other bikes, as I am sure do other members. Also, not everyone can get to use their Nortons as much as they would like. In my case, 1/2 ton of sheep food or a week's shopping just doesn't fit. We are all enthusiasts but have a wide range of circimstances and priorities. Some get to ride their bikes a lot, some don't. There is room for us all. So I would ask you to think again - the club needs enthusiastic riders like you to encourage and inspire the less committed or able Norton owners.

Until very recently, my two Nortons (Commando & 99) had to earn their keep......iespace in the garage. The competition first being an XS250 and later an MuZ Skorpion Traveller. For about 30 years, I generally had a daily 40 mile round tripto workthrough South Coast trafficattempting toreplicate theM25 crawl. Using the bikestook, at worst, only 30 minutes.

Generally, 10,000 miles each year were shared betweenmy bikes and it was interesting to make comparisons of the running costs.

The Skorpion used next to nothingwith regard tooil comsumption but an oil change each year cost about £20s worth of Synthetic plus a £5 filter. Both my Dommi and Commando burned or leaked Castrol 20/50 and each would happily devour a £20 5L tin in a year or more. So about even cost wise.The Commando has a single carb whichgives an easy 60 mpgwhen cruising and this is matched by the other two machines. So again, roughlylevel pegging.

I have always serviced the Nortons myself so generally the yearly cost has just been that of the odd gasket. After being stung for £200 to have an oil change, the timingand the tappets checked on my MuZ I opted for DIY maintenance on this bike as well.

Now the BIG Money BIT..... Both the MuZ and Commando needed a new gearbox sprocket,rear sprocket and chain. Just £120 saw each kitted out accordingly.But the Commando sprocket came attached to a brake drum whereas the MuZ has a disc on its rear end. Which was a pocket crunching £200 plus to replace. I notice that a replacement Commando disc is about half this. Worse news was to follow. Both front ends needed new stanchions and bushes. For the Norton, just over £100 saw it back on the road. The biggest hassle being that of loading each leg with fresh oil. The MuZ forks were a completely different story with a near £500 price tag on thetotal replacement parts.

So, inearlier times,using my Nortons to get around seemed a financially sound move until ......... firstly, leaded 4 star fuel started to disappear. Adding the cost of bottles of Lead Substitute & Octane Boost to the monthly bills. Then the price of Norton spares started to leave the planet. Closely followed by bikes themselves. Some physically as the number of bike theftsor just parts began to rise. In just a couple of years Ilost 2 fuel tank caps, an oil cap, a light switch, 2 mag pick-ups, a KF2C end cap and then a completebattery cover off my Dominator. Most while attending bike rallies or autojumbles. A friend of mine had his Norton stolen while visiting London. He had chained it to a pole while visiting a muesum. He returned just a few hours later to find his bike and most of the pole missing.

Almost the final nail in the coffin, for me, was the arrival of Ethanol. Despite spending large amounts of cash attempting to Ethanol-proof the vunerable parts of all my bikes, all have suffered problems. A £50 internal coating of my Dominator fibreglass fuel tank failed to preventthis itemfrom disolving and then gumming up the valves. Which in turn wrecked the engine. The fuel taps, fuel lines and various carb parts stopped doing their jobs properly on the Commando and eventuallyled to the failure ofthe pistons. Meanwhile, my MuZ, has soldiered on needing only a change in fuel lines. The engine does not idle as smoothly as previously andis harder tostart from cold. But it will still doall that I ask of it.

So the consequences for my Nortons................my Commando now only gets a few runs each month with the odd longer ride todry weatherevents. The less I ride it, the less it deteriorates. The 99 is waiting for a second top end rebuild and will thenprobably get sold on. It has covered just 330 miles in the last 12 months. The MuZ is the winner at the end of the race. Its a good blend of German, British and Japanese engineering. Itdoes everything well and at60 years youngis one of thereasons I no longer ride my Nortons as much as I used to. Does this now make me a collector/investor or even traitor owner?

Simon,

The TR3OC has, I believe, gone on record saying that they do not expect that either the club, or a significant number of the Triumph and BSA triples will exist in ten years time. That pressure will be felt more or less acutely by many marque clubs. Those marques where there are significant numbers of new machines e.g. Triumph may weather the storm for longer but are not immune. As an aside, whilst I was Roadholder Editor I had several chats with my oppo in the Triumph Club and I was amazed that they had approximately the same number of members as we did. What I was not surprised about was that their membership was declining and they were worried about recruiting and retaining members. Back to the comment. As far as I am aware all clubs are suffering a reduction in numbers and in the support the club gets from their members. We could discuss the reasons for this for aeons and still notenumerateall reasons for this but it is happening.

I'm sure people could bring many cogent answers for how the NOC in general and the Executive Committee particular could do all sorts of things to halt this trend. Indeed if you were to offer the EC a list of say the top ten things they should do toenergisethe club and pass it to a friendly EC member I can guarantee that it would be very closely examined. I, like you, would love to see a scenario where there are weekly Branch runs with 60 to 80 Nortons in attendance every week but that is a long way from where we are now.

The Club offers very little for Commando Owners? Maybe. Does it offer more to Lightweight Owners? Or Heavyweight Owners? Or mid 1950s Single Owners? Commandos still benefit from several specialist commercial suppliers. Should the Club spendevery bodiesmoney obtaining spares from the same sources as the commercial suppliers and, if it was good at it, forcing the commercial suppliers out of business. Would that be a good use of Club funds? Obtaining spares for any machine that is many years out of production is difficult and likely to become more so. Commando owners are blessed in that the majority of the parts that they require are available to purchase for next day delivery. Owners of other models have a much more challenging time.

I do disagree with your comment about the price of rallies: Peter Holland will be able to give you chapter and verse on the financing of the rallies but I suspect that at the end of the day any profit made is illusory and that if the Club paid a full retail price for all the goods and services that are used to create a rally the fees would be a great deal higher. In some cases the fees charged are only marginally within the control of the rally organisers: for example it might be possible to have a much cheaper rally if it was sited in a field without anyhygienefacilities but that is unlikely to suit many people. Alternatively, a rally with a £1,000 fee could be held at a swanky country estate with hot and cold running flunkies to wash your bike for you whilst you swilled 'Arab's ruin' in the bar; that is unlikely to get many takers due to the price. The NOC and the Branches try to have a variety of events to suit as many members as possible and to provide a realistic subsidy to all. After all, the proportion of the membership that benefit from a subsidised rally is quite small.

The EC has in the past asked for suggestions on the best way to disperse the money it holds on behalf of the members and it continually strives to do the best for the whole of the membership. It may be argues that the EC has got such decisions wrong but what would be difficult to argue, especially if you were at the EC meetings, is that the EC does not try hard, very hard, to do the best thing for all the Club members.

If you want the Club to organise something, like ferry discounts, then ask. If it cannot be done then you will receive an honest answer why. If you want a Club track day: organise it yourself. The Club will assist but be aware that the costs are prohibitive. Whenever it has been broached either the location was deemed to be unsuitable or there was insufficient people who would have paid to join the track day. Do also be aware that many of the circuits are only allowed a few 'noisy' days each year and at other times there are strict noise limits that might preclude the use of many of our bikes.

In the end, Simon, you will do as you see fit but as I saw it when I was on the EC the committee and its members do their best to support the whole Club. I would dearly love to have the time and expertise to fix my bike very rapidly (after 11 months of waiting I've had to send my magneto off the another tradesman and I am now in the middle of a three month wait to have it returned) but I haven't either. I would dearly love the be part of a Club that spent most of its time on the road and only met to tell tall tales of outrageous riding but, if we are honest, those days have passed. Lament as we might we cannot ignore the fact that, generally, people do not join Clubs any more and those who do are not ascommittedto them as might have been the case yin years past.

Hi Simon,

Thanks for your reply.

I've always taken it that the reason for the existence of the NOC is to support people who have an interest and a liking for the Norton marque. That is riders and those unfortunates who are unable to own or ride a Norton. That will encompass those who see Norton as aninvestmentand those who own then just to ride.

Your comment on the EC is interesting: when I was a member of the EC I can recall several of mycolleagues commenting that they were happy to continue serving the Club but if anyone expressed an interest in the post they held they would gladly let someone else have the glory. The EC is, I feel, a necessary evil in a club of over 4,000 members and where those members have a significant amount of cash held by the Club. The EC are well aware thatthe money should be used for the benefit of the members but should not be frittered away. This makes the EC cautious when it comes top spending our money, which is right. There has been a long-standing instruction to the treasurer to reduce the amount ofcashheld by the Club and that is, slowly happening, but the difficulty is that the EC represent ALL the members and has to do its best for ALL the members.

Re spares: there is much debate about whether the NOC should list any spares for Commandos. On the one hand it is a benefit to members, on the otherCommandoowners have more choice in the commercial sector. As I said before, it would be beyond unfortunate if the NOC undermined any of the commercial suppliers to the extent where their businesses failed: that is likely to mean that overall the choice of spares would reduce and the prices increase.

I note from the MAG, of whom I am life member, that the prices of all their main rallies has had to increase. I also know that the numbers attending their main rallies are vastly greater than we manage. I think the last 'Farmyard' I went to had 10,000 people there: the economies of scale will make a huge difference.

OK, track days: how many NOC members want a track day? Bear in mind that the cost of hiring a track for the day is in the ofthousandsof pounds. If you want an NOC track day in September, Monday to Thursday at Cadwell Park it will cost £7,100 + VAT. That has a limit of 105db for the vehicle. (You can scream as loud as you like) All that took was one phone call to Cadwell Park to get that far. It is cheaper for October. Attendees will have to be there and signed on before a 7am. briefing. If their bike failsscrutineering then the attendees willforfeit their fees. So, that was easy. Now all you have to do is ask your fellow members to pay you the cash up front and keep a record of who has booked: this is the bit that becomes like herding cats. Whenever the idea has been raised you can rapidly get to this point but without risking a lot of either your own money or the Club's money that is where the idea stalls. Those clubs who do run track days, e.g. TR3OC did have a number of years where they lost a lot of money with their track events ... indeed the TR3OC event was in doubt for this year. So, as you can see if you want a track day it is easy for YOU or one of your friends to organise a track day. Why don't the EC organise one? Quite possibly because they, rightly or wrongly figure that they haven't got the spare time to donate the that particular event. Perhaps it is better to think of the EC as providing the framework so that you, the member, can organise the events you want.

Regards

Ian

The Solent Branch of the NOC was one of the first of the one-make clubs to organise track days. The Goodwood sessions were a fixture before the TR3OC was even thought of, let alone the Beezumph. Been there. Done that. Scared myself a few times and have no particular wish to do it again.

As I recall, the Thames Valley Branch took over at another track and the event ceased after a (non Norton) rider was killed. I can imagine all sorts of reasons why the organisers might have decided to stop.

My Nortons are well known in the area (I don't own any other make) and I'm planning to be at the International Rally and the Begonia. However, I no longer ride them every day and there are times when family committments mean that I don't use them for longer periods. Should I resign my club membership ?

What is obvious is that the membership is ageing and they do ask for more comfort. They're not all hairy-arsed Commando riders who can fall asleep anywhere. Personally, I'm happy with a field behind a pub but I'd miss the company of many who wouldn't then turn up.

Club life is a compromise in that respect but I wouldn't have missed for anything the friendship and experiences that I've enjoyed since travelling to the first International rally back in 1986.

Simon, you're making all sorts of judgments about why people ride motorcycles and condemning those who don't share the same philosophy as yourself.

I don't believe that ridden thoughtfully, motorcycles are inherently dangerous. Defensive riding and riding within one's capabilities can reduce much of the risk.

My days of chasing an adrenalin buzz are over. I erm...grew out of it. If that makes me a boring old git in your opinion then so be it. The difference is that I don't condemn the club because some of its members are adrenaline junkies. I'm happy to be in a club with all sorts of members. If you're not, then you're probably right. It's time to leave.

Simon, Idon'tride any of my bikes for an adrenalin buzz, I ride bikes because I love them, in winter I ride off road in trials with both 2 strokes and 4 four stokes the rest of the year its either the Ducati the 961 or the little BSA, I am a member of numerous clubs, off road and single make clubs, MAG, I pay my fees not just for the benefits I will get out of the club but for all members to benefit , if there are things Idon'tagree with I make the effort to put my case at the AGM of the club and what the result of that decision is I either go with the members decision or part company, its calleddemocracy.

I still cant see what your problem is other than having a good whinge I know its been a long year but better weather is not far away or buy your self an old trials bike and come and have some dirty fun, you will soon have a smile on your face and meet some real characters that ride in all weathers on all types of motorcycles for the love of being out on the bike, YOUR BIKE

Just as a member of the Flat Earth Society might try to put distance limitations on the travel of fellow members to stop them 'finding out', we have NOC members who would decry the formation of a Riders Section, when in fact, riding Nortons should be the bread and butter of the club and getting members out on the road ought to be one of our greatest concerns. I wonder if there are any members of CAMRA who are teetotal and only have a position in the Club because they enjoy the camaraderie. (No pun intended).

I've got news for Abraham Lincoln. He could have saved a lot of breath by cutting his speech a little shorter. You can't please some people at all.

Actualy, the Norton Owners Club is in part already becoming a social Club whose members happen to have an interest in Nortons, and indeed the Cub's constitution states that an interest in Nortons is all it takes to gain membership. So how do we get more of them on to the road?

Negativity is in the eye of the beholder and as a member of the EC, I see plenty of it comming in from other directions. Its not exclusive to EC members.

Someone said to me the other day that. 'The Norton Owners Club is just a buch of old men on old motorcycles'. That may be, but some of those old men understand that others need to be 'tempted' to getout on theirNortons.Uninspiring negitivity just keeps them in the shed.

I await the inevitable!

All the best.

Kev

I have a suspicion that bike shows have entirely the wrong effect - they encourage people to go for concours rebuilds and then keep them polished and unridden. I can't abide shows personally. Rows of gleaming machines which exist only to appear at shows. Much more fun to be had wandering around the bike park for any well-used examples. Similarly, I very rarely go on bike rides. I use my bikes as my preferred form of transport - meetings, shopping, dentist, hospital, whatever. Going places for a reason. I don't have the time or inclination to just go for a ride, on my own or organised. I might be wrong here, but weren't they built just to be a form of transport?

I like Nortons, bike shows, jumbles, riding bikes whether its to go somewhere for a purpose or just to go out to blow the cobwebs away. I enjoy working on my bikes, reading about bikes and going on rallies. If I had more money I would probably have more bikes, even though I would be hard pressed to ride them all. I like gleaming machines and I like bikes that are obviously ridden. As I've got older my opposition to trailered bikes has softened, although if a bike is traileredto a showto compete with ridden bikes just so that it is more likely to win a prize, Ibelieve that is cheating.I trailered my combination to Goodwood and I hope to ride it to Germany.I've taken part in daft riding competitions and done daft mileages in a day, and many years ago rode a Norton illegally when the learner rules changed and 250ccwas no longer allowed. I passed my bike test in Germany too few years ago and regret not passing it sooner. I was out on my BMW today bothfor pleasure and with a purpose. It was -2 degrees. I have a sneaking admiration for H.Ds and would love to own a chopper, except for the fact that it would be totally impractical. I loved my BSA C15 and my Bantam to bits.In short, I like almost anything to do with bikes except perhaps for track days. I can't see the point in riding a road bike on a track. That's my opinion and everyone else is welcome to theirs.

One man's fun is another man's bore. I doubt many people are interested in British postage stamps, but I am!

I have a great amount of time for anyone who is prepared to volunteer to steer a Club and get littlethanks for it. Over the years I've been in many Clubs, both as just a member and in a EC capacity.I've noticed that in a Club where the members all pull together, success is almost guaranteed. Those Clubs were mostly small and everyone had the same aim. 'To win'. They were mostly sports Clubs and they were a joy to be a part of.

Large Clubs without a true focus other than an ideal are generallydifficult to manage because there are too many people constantly disagreeing with each other over anything that they don'tsee eye to eye with. That's Democracy in action I suppose, but it always has a detrimental effect ona Club.

Live and let live. Lets get over the fact that some people don't want to ride a Norton. Let them collect, polish, fettle, rally, show, crash, restore, modify or whatever floats their boat. While all that goes on, lets just try to run a Club that is prepared toengage withthose that admire Nortonsin as many ways as possible.

Its an awful thought, but we might find that we enjoy ourselves a whole lot more.

Any club can do what ever it likes, if the peopledon'twant to ride them what can they do, If some bike owners wants to sit in his or her shed/ garage and polish and show them static who are we to tell them what to do, its their money that purchased the bike. I ride mostly alone, I cant abide the thought of riding in a bunch, ride outs turn me off, keep well away from biker meets and ride just for the love of it,don'tneed to prove my prowess of how fast I can go or how good I look, just me, my bike and the road ahead.

Paul.

One thing that really annoys me is people telling me that Im useing my bike wrong. If I want to keep it locked up in the garage unused but polished-I will.

If I want to ride it into the ground-I will.

If I want to saw it into bits-I will.

Because its mine and I can do what I want with it.

I happen to think the NOC is a good club and I am generally happy with way things are going. I use some of its services, and there are some that I dont. But if I wanted to change anything, then I guess I should get on the committee to do it. Not just sit bashing out moaning letters.

The thing I find that puts newcomers off the Norton/classic bike scene is when they turn up at a meeting thet get told by grumbling moaners that everything they do is wrong or rubbish.

So Simon, you use your bike in a way that makes you happy and I'l do the same with mine. And if you think the club is failing in any way, get yourself elected at the next AGM

Hello Paul and Peter.

Now you know what I meant by:

I await the inevitable.

And I'm busy as well!

(And finally) Good grief!

Simon, I join clubs to support, promote motorcycling and try to educate others into another experience, not degrade or whine about why nobody wants to play with me and how I want everybody to play my way.

Paul

My Norton is in 2000 pieces and will be a painfully slow restoration due to scarcity ofparts,money, and knowledgeto move the project along at a faster rate. This club has been extremely helpful to me in both information and spares.

While my focus for the next while will remainon talking and polishing, my goal is to someday ride the thing. How much? No idea.

The club is helping me through the whole process (advice/parts). The result of the clubs investment in me? I'm saving a bike that many believe should have been scrapped.Isn't this a good thing? If the clubs only/main focus was on riding,my poor ES2 and I would becompletely out of luck.If the club changes gears (pun intended) on me to focus mainly on the riding aspect of owning a Norton I'll be doomed.

I won't mention the fact that I live on a different continent which will always preclude me from attendingevents.

The Club can easily continue to support all interest in Norton's be it telling stories, helping source parts, or organizing days on the track. Use your power of membership to (gently) identify what could make the club stronger.

B

Simon, your original flawed argument has descended into self contradiction, personal attacks and lame excuses as to why you cant lead the changes that you think the NOC needs.

I hope that I dont meet you at the international or any of the other rallies as I go to have a good fun time, not to listen to moaning old miserable gits going on about the price of everything, and criticising everyone and everything.

Heaven forbid the thought of a ferry crossing, a 500 mile ride, just to hear people like you drip on about the good old days when Commandos ruled the roads, petrol cost 5 pence a gallon and all foreign made bikes are rubbish. So I might stay at home and get the polish out.