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Clutch cable route

Submitted by john_pullen-appleby on Sat, 04/08/2018
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Light Twins

Hello All,

I have the engine in the frame (with the help of friend) --it took a while but all is now done up. I have a question about the the clutch cable route--as it comes out of the back of the engine nd seems to need a very sharp bend to reach the bars--anyone have any suggestions?

Cheers

JPA

Submitted by patrick_mullen on Sat, 04/08/2018

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That sounds pretty normal to me. All the Jubilee/Navigator clutch cables I have known have always been on the short side and you have to fiddle around with them just to get them to reach the lever. I tend to leave them loose under the tank - no ties - otherwise they don't feel good.

Maybe someone else has got a solution.

Submitted by robert_tuck on Sun, 05/08/2018

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Dommies have a similar issue ,the AMC box points the cable directly at the oiltank support and gearbox plate so the cable is bent round the sharp edges at the back of the tank. I decided to hell with orriginality and drilled a hole through the lot!. I now have a really smooth clutch action. Life is just too short to put up with stupid design F ups.

Submitted by john_pullen-appleby on Sun, 05/08/2018

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Thanks all. I have to clutch working but am unsure how to best st it up. My Triumphs and BSA have levers to have play at thus denoting that the pushrod is not under load when the lever is released. Any hints gratefully received here.

There is nothing to bore holes in to to improve the route I am afraid.

My guesstimated head steady is fitted (I have a 250 frame and someone had cut the bracket off--I had ever seen one so I brazed lugs to the front member). The odd lug at the top was where a previous owner had welded the frame bits together to mount the coils--I cut it in half and retained the principle of the coil mounting.

My home made stand seems to work but I suspect I shall need a foot to be able to reach it from under the engine. Part home made part autojumble stand lengthened and a Triumph spring fitted up.

Attachments norton-pic-docx

Submitted by patrick_mullen on Sun, 05/08/2018

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Top marks for your head steady. It looks a really tidy job and should be very effective. The coil bracket welding looks a bit basic but that bracket is pretty much how the coils were originally mounted.

I am a bit dubious about the clutch adjustment as generally I find that the adjuster on the gearbox has to be virtually fully screwed in to get a nice movement. To adjust the clutch start by removing the primary cover. Then screw in the gearbox adjuster until you have excessive slack in the cable. Then release the nut locking the adjuster stud in the centre of the clutch pressure plate and screw in the stud until it makes contact with the push rod. I think with your previous British clutch experience that you will find this straight forward.

Patrick

Submitted by patrick_mullen on Sun, 05/08/2018

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And to state the obvious once you have got a sweet feeling clutch back off the push rod adjuster until you feel a little it of slack. i.e just like a BSA or Triumph really. The primary adjustment is always done at the push rod end first.

Submitted by john_pullen-appleby on Sun, 05/08/2018

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Hello Patrick,

Thanks for that-- by the gearbox adjuster do you mean the one on the cable that goes into the back of the box.

Sadly things have taken a turn for the worst making adjusting the clutch the least of my worries.

While playing about with the clutch etc. (cable route etc.) I kicked the engine over and the kickstart slipped on the spline (I bought it second had at Kempton park)âI had not tightened it up properlyâhow good the splines will be I know notâI have never had happy experiences with splined items. Anyway when the engine revolvedâI went to see if I could get all the gears and while the engine turned I noticed that there seem to be a big graunching feeling and sound when it revolved but very infrequently. I loosened the primary chain and turned it over with a spanner on the engine nut and it felt like something was engaging the back of the clutch âI have not taken the clutch off but I do not think is is anything there it was too infrequent.I then noticed that I could not get any gears and the kick-start ratchet had failed.I have taken the outer gear cover off and seen that the spring has come out of the hole it locates in.I noticed that the kickstart shaft has a tiny bit of endfloat which I hear is alrightNow the main shaft revolves with the ratchet clacking etc so I am assuming I need to take the inner cover off to tension the spring.What concerns me is the graunchingâI cannot make it do it now and plan to make sure everything revolves freely with the ratchet out of the way. Also howeverâhow could the spring do this?Could I have made this happen mucking about with the kickstart? I am out of ideas at the moment.Before all this I was certain I could get the gears if I turned the outer quadrant with the nut that holds it in (having to revolve the shafts for the gears to ping in). I could getâalbeit with jiggling the shafts round, four gears and neutral and then set to (very slowly) to do the rest (I had to wait months to get the barrels lined).I am assuming from what people have told me regarding shimming the gearbox etc. That it can be worked with the engine in the frame. I cannot really remember how I did it but had the engine on its side on a bench.I have already sent this to Andy and I fear this time I am at a loss.RegardsJPA

Submitted by dan_field on Mon, 06/08/2018

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Hi John

yes you can work on the gearbox in the frame, so no big prob there. Itâs easier with the footrest and header removed.

Interestingly Iâve been trying to solve some oil leaks from the chaincase and put a 1mm gasket between it and the crank case, it didnât stop the leak! ( which I now think is a badly fitted seal by yours truly!) and on inspection the timing chain has been rubbing on the case, I wonder if thatâs your problem? Thereâs not much clearance. On my ES2 I had a similar problem and had to buy a new clutch spider, the stop that prevents the clutch sitting too far down on the mainshaft was so worn that the clutch was touching the inner chain case - this might also be worth checking.

Like you my gears are difficult to select on the bench but go in with a bit of shaft wiggling!

Submitted by patrick_mullen on Mon, 06/08/2018

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Hi John,

Hopefully you will get a quick reply from Andy.

As Dan says you can work on the gearbox in the frame and personally I would dismantle the gearbox and clutch and then re-assemble from scratch. It won't take that long to do because now (in theory) you have everything and it is only a matter of careful re-assembly and you check each item as you put it back in. Part of the problem is the fact that the engine/box has been in bits for a long time and something might have fallen inside - like a split pin or washer. You definitely need to find the cause for the graunching noise. That is important, you definitely don't want a gearbox seizing up on the road.

The other problems you tackle one by one. With a bit of luck the kick start only needs the spring reseated and the splines tightened up properly. The NOCshop have a new spring if needed, I think. I can't remember much about the spring but it goes on without any dismantling of the inner part of the gearbox.

By the gearbox adjuster I mean the cable adjuster where it screws into the gearbox. You really only use this for the final tweaking of the cable adjustment.

Patrick.

Submitted by john_pullen-appleby on Mon, 06/08/2018

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Previously Dan Field wrote:

Hi John

yes you can work on the gearbox in the frame, so no big prob there. Itâs easier with the footrest and header removed.

Interestingly Iâve been trying to solve some oil leaks from the chaincase and put a 1mm gasket between it and the crank case, it didnât stop the leak! ( which I now think is a badly fitted seal by yours truly!) and on inspection the timing chain has been rubbing on the case, I wonder if thatâs your problem? Thereâs not much clearance. On my ES2 I had a similar problem and had to buy a new clutch spider, the stop that prevents the clutch sitting too far down on the mainshaft was so worn that the clutch was touching the inner chain case - this might also be worth checking.

Like you my gears are difficult to select on the bench but go in with a bit of shaft wiggling!

Hello Dan, thanks for this--I have used a standard gasket--the clutch drum is new but the internal bits are the existing one. I will look for witness marks but--it only did it occasional while it was being turned over with no plugs in. There is now so much noise from the kick-start ratchet I cannot tell. I will all have to come to bits (primary and gearbox).

Submitted by john_pullen-appleby on Mon, 06/08/2018

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Previously patrick_mullen wrote:

Hi John,

Hopefully you will get a quick reply from Andy.

As Dan says you can work on the gearbox in the frame and personally I would dismantle the gearbox and clutch and then re-assemble from scratch. It won't take that long to do because now (in theory) you have everything and it is only a matter of careful re-assembly and you check each item as you put it back in. Part of the problem is the fact that the engine/box has been in bits for a long time and something might have fallen inside - like a split pin or washer. You definitely need to find the cause for the graunching noise. That is important, you definitely don't want a gearbox seizing up on the road.

The other problems you tackle one by one. With a bit of luck the kick start only needs the spring reseated and the splines tightened up properly. The NOCshop have a new spring if needed, I think. I can't remember much about the spring but it goes on without any dismantling of the inner part of the gearbox.

By the gearbox adjuster I mean the cable adjuster where it screws into the gearbox. You really only use this for the final tweaking of the cable adjustment.

Patrick.

Hello Patrick I now wonder. The gearbox was in a state when I got it. Bits missing, the nut on the end of the main shaft stripped the kick--start ratchet --rather like it is now. Oddly there was a gear lever and there seemed to be four gears.

I replace a spinning layshaft bus with a needle race and a thrust washer ala BSA--replaced several bit that were missing from the start ratchet and--after much pestering of poor Andy got it so that the kick-start ratchet had a tiny amount of endfloat.

The ratchet seemed to work but I do not know how the spring could escape like that and--how I can prevent it happening again.

The graunching seemed to happen at infrequent times rather than something fouling--IE it had to revolve several times to do it. I could stop it at that point and go back and forth with a spanner on the crank nut and it felt like something engaging where it should not only to vanish once it turned some more. I am hoping it has left a witness mark--it ids is something fouling. I have a vague memory of thinking I could detect it it earlier but then I could not make it happen--at what this point was (IE was the primary on)--I cannot remember. Ho hum.

Cheers

JPA

Submitted by john_pullen-appleby on Mon, 06/08/2018

Permalink

Previously John Pullen-Appleby wrote:

Previously Dan Field wrote:

Hi John

yes you can work on the gearbox in the frame, so no big prob there. Itâs easier with the footrest and header removed.

Interestingly Iâve been trying to solve some oil leaks from the chaincase and put a 1mm gasket between it and the crank case, it didnât stop the leak! ( which I now think is a badly fitted seal by yours truly!) and on inspection the timing chain has been rubbing on the case, I wonder if thatâs your problem? Thereâs not much clearance. On my ES2 I had a similar problem and had to buy a new clutch spider, the stop that prevents the clutch sitting too far down on the mainshaft was so worn that the clutch was touching the inner chain case - this might also be worth checking.

Like you my gears are difficult to select on the bench but go in with a bit of shaft wiggling!

Hello Dan, thanks for this--I have used a standard gasket--the clutch drum is new but the internal bits are the existing one. I will look for witness marks but--it only did it occasional while it was being turned over with no plugs in. There is now so much noise from the kick-start ratchet I cannot tell. I will all have to come to bits (primary and gearbox).

Hello again--both inner and outer drums of the clutch revolve freely enough but, --if I fit the clutch plates and do the adjuster bolts up it makes an awful noise--very infrequently. It is the outer drum/primary chain touching--if I revolve it (whith the plates out) and press in a 12 oclock position I can make it do it--when the pressure is released to stops doing it.

I don't know if it is anything to do with my return spring and gear woes--I have not dismantled anything further. I thought as it is my birthday that I would do something simple like fitting a front mudguard--one I thought I had fitted before it was painted--it was a horrible job and took hours--I was mindful of the Hamlet Cigar adverts of yesteryear.

Cheers

JPA

 


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