1960 Norton Navigator Rebuild

Previously peter_holland1 wrote:

â?IMHO the tube between centre stand legs is very weak, can rust through where the spring contactsâ?

Peter

So this tube has to be exchanged with a rougher one

Fritz

Hi Ulrich,

Sounds mysterious. If the stand fitted before it should fit again. Looking at your picture of the centre stand the inner spacer is not in the picture. (There are two outer spacers and one inner spacer). Are you fitting the outer spacers the wrong way round ? They seem much thicker than my recollection of them. All my bikes are now in Winter quarters so I can't easily have a look.

Patrick.

Brilliant, now I know what the stand stop looks like, thanks Ulrich!

Ulrich,

I completely agree with your fixing of the spacers- so it's a mystery why the stand doesn't fit. The spacers/bushes are very similar in design to the NOCshop modified items and should be superior to the standard Norton item as they help to stop the stand bending.

Is it possible that it's due to a build-up of the powder coating on the mating surfaces ,i.e the faces of the spacers/the channel section/the stand? The original parts had only a thin coat of cellulose paint and the mating faces of the spacers probably wasn't painted at all.

Yes you're right about the Jubilee(17) and Navigator(19) frame numbers. Will this cause you much problem with registration in Germany? The frame number on the right hand side could be 9062? 19.(missing a digit) In my limited experience the 17 or 19 comes after the number ON THE FRAME but oddly enough on all my UK REGISTRATION DOCUMENTS the 17 or 19 is at the start of the number. I don't know why this should be. The Club dating officer could be the best man to verify for you.

Patrick

Nice easy fix ... result!!

Hi Ulrich,

I don't want to be a pessimist but I think you will still have a problem when you come to refit your frame side rails. The outside edge of the top of the stand seems to be out of line with the spacers where the footrest bar fits through. It might just be an optical illusion (I hope so) in the picture but it looks as if the stand is too wide at the top. You might have to file down the stand spacers to get the frame side rails to line up. I hope I'm wrong and I am sure you will succeed.

Patrick

Your before picture is fine - so hopefully it all pulls together properly when you get your frame rails back.

The oil pipes are easy to sort; the small pipe on the return line-oil tank front- connects to the rockers ( approx 22 inches of 3/16 bore oil grade pipe needed), The pipe at the top rear of the oil tank connects to the engine breather (approx 24 inches of 1/4 bore oil grade pipe) and the other pipe connects to the rear chain guard ( approx 20 inches of 1/4 bore oil grade pipe.

These dimensions were given to me in 1994 by T Brock and Ray Sage of the NOC.

You might have some problem in getting these old imperial bore sizes now but the nearest metric should be fine.

Patrick.

Don't forget in the final build up to fit the mud flap at the bottom of the frame channel section. This is supposed to prevent dirt from the back wheel being thrown around the back of the engine.

The mud flap is held on by the same two bolts/nuts which hold the stand stop on. My Navigator De Luxe has what might be an original mud flap and it seems to be made of some sort of compressed fibre board. It looks very poor quality and I doubt if it's waterproof but it has lasted 55 years - best to make one out of plastic. It's only about 10cm wide x 9cm deep.

Your stand stop in your picture looks a home made item but it should do the job OK.

Patrick.

Yes, I found out too that it wasn't some kind of cushion behind the stop (which didn't make much sense anyway) but I copied what I had. Obviously it was the remnants of a mud flap. I didn't think of it as anything else because of the material it was made out of. I'll make one out of rubber for it now I know. I'm pleased to see in your photo where the round rubber bumper goes. I bought one and couldn't figure out where it went - now I know.

I was thinking it looks high too, especially if I compare it to the original adverts. If I move it to the front set of holes I have then the front bracket will miss by a few inches.

Getting there Ulrich!

You are doing a very thorough job.

On my Standard Navigator there is a hole with a rubber grommet in the top of the standard chainguard - about 15/20mm from the front edge. The breather pipe simply pushes into this hole and any oil mist from the breather lubricates the chain. My De Luxe Navigator with the fully enclosed chaincase is virtually identical.

Patrick

Interesting .... no hole on my chain guard that I can see?!

Hi Dan,

I can't guarantee that this is original Norton fitting as I have two other chainguards which don't have the hole in them. However the two chainguards without the holes are definitely not Norton originals while the fully enclosed chaincase on the De Luxe is almost certainly an original part. Also in the Norton Spare Parts List for 1959 under Rear Chainguard and Fittings there is a ' Breather pipe grommet' - part no 18285 - listed. The same grommet - same part no - fits both the standard and the Full Rear Chaincase (optional equipment).

It is a tidy method of fitting and very practical.

Patrick.

I'm not sure mine is original, but it's certainly a bit battered! As you say it's a tidy way of dealing with the breather.

dan

Hi Ulrich,

My Navigator only puts out some oil when it wet sumps after it has been left unused for months. Then it can leave a puddle of oil as it runs out of the breather pipe unto the chain and on to the ground. The chrome filter is probably unnecessary but it looks good so your choice.

You said you only had the UPPER chainguard. The Standard type chainguard is actually three parts - an upper guard (part no 22341), a lower guard (part no 21161) and a chainguard extension (part no 23172). The NOC shop keeps them all I think.

As a matter of interest the original price in 1961 was ; eight shillings and six pence for the upper guard and the lower guard was four shillings. That's in old money so I think about 62.5 pence in modern. And there was no VAT to pay as well.

Patrick

The frame, wheels and suspension of the Francis Barnett range of larger two stroke motorcycles formed the starting point for the Norton lightweight. ( All part of AMC group) The chainguard of Francis Barnett cruiser was used for the Norton Lightweights, but an additional hole added for the oil tank breather.

The FB, being two stroke, didn't have an oil tank.

Sellers of pattern chainguards describe the part as suitable for FB or Norton Lightweight. But it doesn't have the Norton hole!

Peter

Ulrich Hoffmann wrote:

No hole in my chainguard either.

Will find another way to fix the breather hose.

The previous owner used some sort of filter at the end of the hose.

You will feel happier now that the frame fits properly back together. Your upper chainguard looks the correct shape to me. What Peter says makes complete sense that the replica chainguard is made to fit the Francis Barnett and simply by adding a hole it becomes a Norton chainguard. Easy.

Hi Ulrich that is coming on nicely,

I have had the same conundrums! .... But I think the brake light switch was mounted on a bracket from the back of the rear footrest mount, that's where mine is going, I also had to bend my brake rod, having spent a while straightening it! But I made mine into a bow shape. There is clear evidence of it rubbing for many years so this must be normal, your bend looks very professional!

The good news is you have the brake lever stop in the right place, although all the pictures I have show it being positioned vertically and directly under the footrest.

Hope that helps

dan

The 1959 Maintenance Manual says;

BRAKE PEDAL ADJUSTMENT.

The brake pedal stop is situated at the left hand end of the footrest rod. By slackening off the footrest rod nut the pedal stop may be rotated and locked into another position, thus providing a certain amount of adjustment. Altering the position of the pedal pad will necessitate adjustment of the brake rod.

The straight brake rod on mine rubs the passenger footrest. I think this is normal but it has been queried by the vehicle test examiner when the bike was tested. He did pass it as the rod does not rub when the bike is in the riding position, i.e the rod only rubs the footrest when on the stand. The Norton footrest is specially shaped at this point to allow maximum clearance.

Patrick.

Hi,

Does this picture help with the way the pedal stop fits.

Tony

It's very difficult to get a really accurate measurement with everything fitted on the bike but I reckon the length is 127cm or approx 50 inches. So your mudguard is too short; that why someone had fitted the extension in the first place.

The mudguard profile from the back looks very similar to mine but of course mine has the original style rear light/number plate fitted to it so you don't actually see a lot of the mudguard. See picture attached.

Maybe someone can give a more precise measurement.

Petrol tanks are becoming a problem as modern petrol containing ethanol attacks the old tank liners. It also attacks the old rubber pipe but that is easily and cheaply cured by fitting a new pipe which is made from a more suitable type of modern rubber. The latest tank liners now claim to be ethanol resistant but I have not had any first hand experience of using these.

The screws holding on the tank badges are 4BA to the best of my knowledge. This size is virtually identical to 3.5mm. In the UK household electric wall switches and sockets are fixed to their wall boxes by 3.5mm chrome headed brass screws and I have used these for fitting the badges as every household has spares of these. I'm not sure exactly what thread they have but certainly in my case they all screwed in easily. They are available very cheaply from any DIY store - certainly in England or Ireland but maybe not in Germany.

Patrick

Coming on nicely!

That will look really good when it gets a coat of paint - it follows the wheel line very very nicely .

Do you need to fit a reflector to comply with TUV rules ?

Interesting ! How did the previous owner fit a Commando ignition plate? Surely it is too big. The correct one to fit also fits the BSA Bantam 4 speed - info per Boyer. The one I have has worked perfectly for years.

Patrick

Hi Uli,

If you're looking for a Lucas rear ligth lens, there is one on ebay right now, not really expensive.

Ebay-no: 162303375387

Fritz