First start of my 1937 16h was noisier than expected! Accompanied by loud , strange sort of whirring noise. Can any one suggest what might be the problem please? I think it may be from the timing gears? I do have a video clip but can't upload here as it is too large.
Could be a tight chain.
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Whirling Dervishes.
The open-valve side valves do whir and clatter quite a lot. Could you post a You Tube link ?
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Normal? (Dross Alert)
Sounds quite normal for a 16H of that age, to me.
Video might help identify anything out of the usual.
These are noisy engines. (I suspect the whirling noise from the gearbox)
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Following Neil's comment…
Following Neil's comment...is the gearbox full of oil?
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noisy Norton Video clip
Hi guys, the above link should take you to the clip on you tube,
thanks for the help,
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Shouldn't be like that...
It does sound like a chain...could the magneto drive be over-tight ? Dynamo drive gears can make some pretty horrible whining noises too.
The mag chain cover is quick and easy to remove and the dynamo doesn't require a lot more work to withdraw it. I'd try those first.
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Hi Richard, mag has just…
Hi Richard, mag has just been rebuilt and seems to turn fine
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Whirl
Thanks for the nice long clip , Gary. I'd drag mine out for comparison were it not for being in hibernation and with a Dommie racer to put back together. (I'm getting there Jon) There was never a whirl anyway, just the usual clatter on my 16H
To state the obvious the whirl increases with the revs.
Have you greased the valves via the nipples? I changed all of my grease nipples to the later type because I found I couldn't get enough grease in with the earlier (WD) type. Good idea to check all of the engine / gearbox grease points. Does the oil pressure guide on the timing case come up once running? Making the assumption that piston clearances are in order.
PS: While your mag was apart: I hope you had an easy cap fitted... But that is another topic.
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Hi Neil, thanks for your…
Hi Neil,
thanks for your response. The grease nipples are very difficult , but were greased on assembly - I shall check at w/e. The oil tell tale is working fine and there seems to be really good oil pressure.
I have 3 main culprits so far, Valve stems, gearbox and piston/barrel. The gearbox seems very tired and probably past its best, The piston is good (standard) Barrel is ok but does have a slight lip around the top, with new rings. I have another barrel with no lip - so shall try that and see if noise is still present.
Thanks for you help
Gary.
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I suspect Richard has the…
I suspect Richard has the answer. Dynamo drive. It's easy to remove and replace.
I like the look of the old plain grease nipples. I'd like to put them back on my single #2, but nobody sells them. A push-on grease gun works fine as long as you put a scrap of old cotton shirt over the nipple to improve the seal. When I put my 16H back on the road there were a couple of problem grease nipples. I swapped for new ones with a modern clip on grease gun. Then cleared the old ones in a vice on the bend and put them back. All fine ever since.
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Ridge
Hi Gary,
My 16H is standard bore too and was within useful bore, but there was a top ridge I had to work on before preparing the bore and painting. (VHP)
I bought a NOS 1940's piston in its grease packing from a singles dealer long out of business.
What I'm suggesting is the top piston ring might have broken a bit off. Let's hope not but at least on a SV it is easy to check.
Good luck.
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Starting
Hello Gary, I noted in the video that the whirring noise was apparent when you were kicking the bike over i.e. even before the engine was running thus most chains/gears etc. in the engine will be in a sort of 'no-load' situation at this point thus perhaps this points to a gearbox issue. What happens when you pull the clutch with the engine running (ideally completely disconnecting the engine/gearbox i.e. no drag) - does the whirring stop/diminish?
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Hi Gary, It`s hard to tell…
Hi Gary,
It`s hard to tell from a static video where the noise might be coming from. You can use a large screwdriver as a stethoscope by putting the tip of it on each suspect part of the engine in turn while placing your head on the handle near your ear. you will be able to hear inside quite clearly.
All the best, Al
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Noisy Norton 16H
It does sound like a tight chain to me. Have you checked the tension on the primary chain?
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David, the Vincent Owners…
David, the Vincent Owners Club sell the original Tecalmit type nipples. I bought some for my 16h a couple of weeks ago.
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Thanks everyone, the mag/…
Thanks everyone, the mag/ Dyno chain is disconnected so I don’t think the problem is there will hopefully try it at W/ end with other barrel and then try pulling the clutch in if no different. Will also check primary chain. thanks
Gary
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Like Christopher,
I thought maybe tight primary. It's easy enough to check by popping the inspection cover off.
Gary - how is it running without a mag chain?
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I disconnected the drive…
I disconnected the drive/chain to see if that it quieter - it doesn't .
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Valve Cover...
Maybe a daft guess...but have you tried with the valve cover removed ? I'm assuming this is an open tappet engine and I've never seen a cover without witness marks from the valve springs. I space mine out a little.
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Thanks Richard, I'l have a…
Thanks Richard,
I'l have a look tomorrow. The Primary chain was very tight and is now sorted - i think that has made it quieter, but it is still there.
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16H Noises...
They do whirr , compared with more modern side valves...It's difficult with sound recordings to know if some sounds are normal or exaggerated.
You don't have any practical jokers in the household who might be hiding out of sight with a washboard and a stick, do you ?
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If the primary was very…
If the primary was very tight it will most likely have damaged bearings, main, gearbox or clutch .
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You can pick up noisy…
You can pick up noisy bearings using the screwdriver stethoscope
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Pretty confident now that…
Pretty confident now that the noise is coming from the gearbox - can anyone please suggest a good/reasonable restore/rebuilder please?
Thanks for all your help
Gary.
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The doll's head is easy to…
The doll's head is easy to get inside while still on the bike. Only detach the clutch cable and 7 nuts (and move exhaust). It has to be worth looking inside. The sleeve gear won't come out unless you remove the clutch, but all the rest does. WD 16H manual is a free download and covers your bike.
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Dolls Head
As David said the Dolls head box is easy to work on in the frame BUT I would removed the primary too.
I had thought about drive side mains (Still possible) but then I remembered replacing the sleeve bearing over 20 years ago. I got it from RGM and I'm sure it is the same part as a Commando.
These bikes were designed to be stripped right down in the field using only the tool kit supplied.
+ all the lube was grease and SAE 50. (Today I would put something lighter in the primary and something a little heavier in the Dolls head,,,EG EP 140 or oil. grease)
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Thanks guys, is there a good…
Thanks guys, is there a good website to get bearings/ seals etc from?
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I use a Andover Norton and…
I use a Andover Norton and RGM or Simply bearings for the more common stuff. Dave Coates is a good man to do a rebuild if you don’t want to, but they are easy enough to work on.
dan
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Thanks Dan does Dave Coates…
Thanks Dan does Dave Coates have e website please?
Thanks
Gary
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Upright gearbox.
Hi Gary,
Dave Coates does not have a website as he is like most of us Ludites who grew up pre internet. His phone numbers are 01635 862986 or 07866 670390, unless he has changed recently, and he lives near Thatcham. He will most likely have a stall at VMCC Founders Day this Sunday.
Most bearing dealers should be able to order bearings in if you give them the Imperial dimensions. Get the main drive one with a single side seal. A word of warning regarding lubrication, EP gearbox oil can re-act with phospher-bronze bushes and corrode the surfaces.
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Extreme Pressure (Dross Warning)
Richard,
With regard to EP Gearbox oil, it was indeed the case that this oil was harmful to 'yellow' metal.
However, companies such as Castrol, what I use, make a range of EP gearbox oil that are not harmful in old gearboxes.
It was the sulphur additive that caused the damage but has for a long time been replaced by synthetics. Look for GL4 ClassiC on the tin and beware of very old stock.
Hope this helps.
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looking for a particular Kempton Park jumble trader
who sells Norton parts, met at Kempton Park a while back. I chatted with him a while back about modified Norton boxes, including fitting AMC cam plates to earlier boxes. I wish I had taken a card from him.
He took a stall near the entrance end, close to the grandstand. Is this David Coates?
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Dave Coates.
Hi Paul,
When you enter Kempton go up the concrete steps, keep to the left hand side and Dave is about 4 or 5 stalls along. He is in his 70s now but still enthuiastic. His main gearbox customers are period Commando motocross sidecar racers, but does road spec boxes as well. He usually has a variety of Norton single/twin parts for sale. At this Sunday's VMCC Founders Day rally he wil be in one of the centre pitches.
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Hi Dan, I have just bought a…
Hi Dan, I have just bought a re-build kit from RGM, so I'll give that a go.
Gary.
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We have them within our club....
Sleeve gear gearbox bearing
A2/316
Part no.: 040098
£17.00 excl VAT
Availability: 4 in stock
Qty:
Add to basket
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Layshaft Bearing
How do I remove the layshaft outer bearing race from the gearbox housing please?
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Could be a tight chain.