Hi all,I have just picked up a 1952 ES2 and was wondering if someone could give me a quick tip on adjusting the clutch. At the moment the biting point for the clutch is in around the last 1/2" movement on the handle bad lever and I want to get it closer to the mid-point of the movement lever. So I can see the adjustment on the cable going into the gear box but I am not sure if once I undo the lock nut if I should be going clock wise or anti clock wise to move the biting point. I have tried a little of both ways but don't seem to notice a difference so I guess I want to check I am going in the right direction before changing to much.Also I had a quick question on down changes and mine being a little clunky at the moment. Is it normal to get a bit of a clunk on down change? This is my first relatively old bike so I am still getting to grips with some of the idiosyncrasies.
Hello David, I had one of…
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Ok that makes sense. I did…
Ok that makes sense. I did not seem to be getting any adjustment with the screw on the cable even though it initially looked like that is where you should make adjustments. Thanks for the info. I know where I need to be looking now.
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G'day David, it sounds as…
G'day David, it sounds as if your cable is too tight to start with. This will have the clutch rod working all the time which can lead to the hardened end/s overheating and being destroyed. You should have a 1/16"- 1/8" free movement of the cable at the handle bar lever.
As Colin says, the initial adjustment is done by loosening of the clamp nut inside the inspection cover on the box and turning with a screwdriver, the worm shaft so it just touches the clutch rod,... by feel. Screw fully in the cable adjuster on the outside top of box then pull down the actuator arm which the cable is attached (which you have just slackened off the nut). With these parts held in place, tighten up the clamp nut. Final fine adjustment then can be done with the external knurled cable adjuster on the outside of box.
Hope I've got that right?...clear as mud! I'm sure some one will correct me if wrong.
Best to get yourself an owners manual, as they explain everything with diagrams.
Cheers,
Paul
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Thanks Paul. I am sure it…
Thanks Paul. I am sure it will become clearer once I get a look under the inspection cover. I think I have a picture of it in my head now
I will have to see what owners manuals are available. I do have an original Pitman's manual that covers a few Norton singles but it does not exactly go into a lot of detail.
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Ok after an exploratory op…
Ok after an exploratory operation this weekend I have another question.
If I have the bike on the centre stand so I can turn the rear wheel by hand and it's also in first gear should the wheel turn as easily as when in neutral when I have the clutch pulled in? I am thinking with the clutch pulled in the rear wheel should free wheel as easily as if it were in neutral despite being in first gear. What I am seeing at the moment is I can turn the wheel with the clutch pulled in but there is far more resistance than when it's in neutral. I am thinking the clutch is not disengaging as much as it should be.
I guess I just want to check my thinking is correct before I play around too much with clutch adjustment. I know I have seen a few older bikes on their centre stands with rear wheels turning a little when in neutral so I am thinking I might be missing some knowledge on the clutch set-up on older bikes.
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It would seem that you do…
It would seem that you do have some clutch drag. This could be due to adjustment, but out of interest, what are you using as a lubricant in your primary case? I was having clutch drag on my later Norton, and I found that using automatic transmission fluid in the primary case helped.
It might not be a bad idea to take the primary case off, take the clutch apart, clean it and re-assemble it - a very easy job on your bike because the clutch springs are not adjustable. Then put everything together again and try with ATF in the case.
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Hi Colin. I have only just…
Hi Colin. I have only just got the bike so I don't actually know at the moment what the lubricant in the primary case is. It looks fairly thick whatever it is. The previous owner was actually deceased so I have not had chance to get any information really about the bike. So I am going through a process of discovery trying to figure out what is right and what is not.
Just knowing the rear wheel should free wheel with the clutch depressed helps as I can see what I can do on the cable and adjustment in the inspection cover. I think I will see what I can do on that level before digging deeper.
Actually the inspection cover leads me to another question as when I took that off I could see lubricant up to the level of the cover but did not get any leakage when I took the cover off itself. So is that right? I am assuming it would be.
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Previously david_bell1 wro…
Previously david_bell1 wrote:
Hi Colin. I have only just got the bike so I don't actually know at the moment what the lubricant in the primary case is. It looks fairly thick whatever it is. The previous owner was actually deceased so I have not had chance to get any information really about the bike. So I am going through a process of discovery trying to figure out what is right and what is not.
Just knowing the rear wheel should free wheel with the clutch depressed helps as I can see what I can do on the cable and adjustment in the inspection cover. I think I will see what I can do on that level before digging deeper.
Actually the inspection cover leads me to another question as when I took that off I could see lubricant up to the level of the cover but did not get any leakage when I took the cover off itself. So is that right? I am assuming it would be.
That seems all right. There is a level plug in the gearbox which lets you fill it to the correct level. You really do need a manual. I have the CDRom one from Kim The CD Man, which has manuals and parts lists for many Nortons, including your ES2. Email kimthecdman@techinfo.com.au.
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That's great. Thanks for…
That's great. Thanks for that I will email them.
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Best since you are not sur…
Best since you are not sure about what oils are in the machine, is to drain them and put in fresh to makers specs. The gear box takes 1/2 pint, so if you drain and refill with that amount you will know where your at. The level plug is to be used when just topping up with out draining and is a bit of a messy exercise.
You will always feel a little more resistance when rotating the rear wheel while in gear with clutch disengaged than in neutral because all the gears will be rotating through the thick oil and there will always be a little drag between the clutch plates due to the ingress of oil. The heavier the weight of oil, the more drag will be felt. Nothing to worry about, as long as the gears engage cleanly with engine running going from neutral to first.
Also, always free up clutch platesbefore starting engine by pulling in clutch and swinging the kick starter through several times. They tend to stick together when left standing sometimes.
I must say at this point, that of all my Brit bikes, the Norton clutch has given most grief over the years. I now have just re-built it and heavily modified it spending many hours, and now it appears to be behaving as it should!.....so far.
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Thanks Paul. I actually ha…
Thanks Paul. I actually have pretty significant drag when turning the rear wheel so I am going to play around with worm shaft adjustment to see how much difference that makes.
I think gear changes are a little clunky at the moment particular on down change so that is what led me to start looking at the clutch. The tricky thing for me is I have no baseline of what is normal so it's a bit of a learning exercise at the moment. I am probably going to be best taking the whole clutch assembly apart so I can get a better idea of what I am dealing with but will see what difference I can make on the worm shaft adjustment to start with.
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Previously Paul Knapp wrot…
Previously Paul Knapp wrote:
Best since you are not sure about what oils are in the machine, is to drain them and put in fresh to makers specs. The gear box takes 1/2 pint, so if you drain and refill with that amount you will know where your at. The level plug is to be used when just topping up with out draining and is a bit of a messy exercise.
You will always feel a little more resistance when rotating the rear wheel while in gear with clutch disengaged than in neutral because all the gears will be rotating through the thick oil and there will always be a little drag between the clutch plates due to the ingress of oil. The heavier the weight of oil, the more drag will be felt. Nothing to worry about, as long as the gears engage cleanly with engine running going from neutral to first.
Also, always free up clutch platesbefore starting engine by pulling in clutch and swinging the kick starter through several times. They tend to stick together when left standing sometimes.
I must say at this point, that of all my Brit bikes, the Norton clutch has given most grief over the years. I now have just re-built it and heavily modified it spending many hours, and now it appears to be behaving as it should!.....so far.
Very good, Paul, but most of the oils recommended in the manual from the early '50s are not available 60 years later. I have not seen the Castrolite straight 20 oil recommended for the primary in many years, which is why I recommend and use A.T.F. The recommendation for engine and gearbox are Castrol XL straight 30 in winter and Castrol XXL straight 40 in summer, again, these oils are no longer being made. it is more realistic to use a 20/50 multigrade, such as Castrol GTX, year round in the engine, and a gear oil such as Castrol Hypoid 90, in the gearbox.
I don't know which Norton clutch you have been having all the problems with, but the clutches changed over the years. The 1952 clutch featured a pressed steel pressure plate held in by 3 springs which were secured in their cups by three 1/4" bolts tightened down fully. The clutch always pulled out perfectly because it was actuated by a "Mushroom" shaped pusher which ran in the gearbox main shaft and always kept the pressure plate square. The aluminium pressure plate with adjustment for the push rod and for the springs came later, probably to reduce manufacturing costs. The Commando clutch is again completely different, but I suspect you knew that.
Colin.
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Not wanting to get involve…
Not wanting to get involved in an oil debate!, BUT, for my personal preference, I use straight SAE20 Shell Corena compressor oil in all my Brit primary drives (only because I scored a 20L drum years ago )
For the Brit gear box's, I use Penrite Transoil 90 gear oil. (mono oil equivalent to SAE50 engine oil) I prefer the heavier box oil as it adds a bit more drag through the gears, helping the clutch plates to free up quicker.
Engine oil, I use Valvoline SHPO SAE50, another mono engineoil, in my Brit singles and an AJS early twin.
Also I like the heavier engine oil as summer riding can often be inthe very high 30's Cwhere thelighter oils run a little thin. (though the Valvoline is available in a mono SAE40 & SAE30 engine oil)
My 1951 clutch problems, and remedy, I'll leave for later.
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I've noticed that the rea…
I've noticed that the rear wheels tend to revolve more when ticking over in neutral on bikes fitted with upright and laydown boxes rather than the later AMC boxes. The only reason for this rotation must be drag between mainshaft and sleeve gear.
The design difference leading to this is perhaps that the mainshaft in the AMC box is pulled up tight against the inner cover whereas the earlier boxes rely for end float control on a bronze thrust washer splined to the shaft and running against the sleeve gear. Presumably drag between washer and gear is enough to cause this.
A rough impression of clutch drag can be gained by trying to paddle the bike backwards in first gear with the engine running and the clutch lever pulled in. If you can't easily do that then it's dragging too much.
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Hello David,
I had one of those. Unlike the later Norton clutches, these clutches don't have an adjuster in the middle of the pressure plate. The clutch is disengaged with a worm ehic can be accessed by removing the oval cover on the gearbox (Kickstart side). the lever which operates the worm is clamped to the worm with a bolt, which can be loosened and the worm turned with a large screwdriver to the desired position, the bolt tightened, and the cover replaced.