Battery issues on 961 cafe racer

I suspect that there are three possibilities here:

1) The original battery is faulty - a warranty issue.

2) A faulty starter motor - a warranty issue.

3) An electrical component/wiring fault whereby the battery is being drained whilst the bike is parked up - a warranty issue.

I suggest that in any case you need Norton to take a look at the bike as a warranty issue. Their reputation for dealing with such problems is very good.

Although I do have lithium batteries on a couple of my bikes, I don't think fitment of such a device to your bike should be necessary at this time (perhaps when the first original battery has expired with old age etc.).

I use a solar battery charger on one bike with solar panel stuck to the inside of the garage window - it works well at keeping the bike's lead-acid battery topped up.

Andrew hi, there are Dc to dc chargers out there designed for your situation,u just need a quality unit for the quality bike such a as an optimate(yep even they do one) ,and a good car battery to hook it onto , should last ages .cheers Richard

Andrew:

Can you not remove the battery and take it into your residence and put it on the charger? This would be a pain in the ass but it would be better that having a bike with a dead battery when you want to ride it.

Mike

Another thing, the battery needs to be fully charged on a 961 or it will spin over pretty good on the starter but won't fire.

I had my 961 3 years and 3 batteries the first lasting 9 months but I think the warranty is 6 months on batteries. I gave up with the expensive Yuasa's thinking if they only last a year any old battery will do and they did.

Enjoy your 961

Andrew / Gents

I learned some time ago that the only way to 'store' a 961 for more than a week or so is to leave it permanently connected to a monitoring charger such as an Optimate, from which they will start instantly, and you also don't have to keep replacing the battery - mine is 3 years old and still perfect.

Not the expected situation on a modern machine. All lead acid batteries self discharge a small amount, most modern vehicles have plenty of reserve capacity to allow for this, and to run alarms and the like. The only possible draw on a 961 that I know of is the digital clock, which must be minuscule. I suspect the real problem is the big lump of an engine and a 'just there' capacity battery, always worse in cold weather. With the battery buried under the fuel tank there is little room to fit a larger capacity one, and you can't even do a quick jump start.

Andrew, you might have discussed this with Optimate, but you may have to reverse the polarity of the male connector that comes with the charger to fit the female connector on the bike. I had to reverse mine on my mains powered Optimate. That type of connector is available in a range of sizes and polarities. If you get stuck, they are used extensively in the R/C model aircraft industry, any good shop will stock what you need.

Roger

Adding to the battery load, when starting the engine, is that of the electric fuel pump. Of interest, my Norton has always started easily, including when I have left the headlight on by mistake. Even after 3 weeks sitting in a damp garage it has started quickly.

The advice, I was given, by the factory was to always keep a little used 961 connected up to the likes of an Optimate. Apparently there is a connector somewhere in the electrical system set up ready for this to happen.

Two obvious questions...........where is this connector and what polarity is the battery set up for? Most modern vehicles being negative earth.

A good idea would be to copy for all those useful 961 hints and tips, that appear on this Forum and then paste them on the blank pages in the Owner's Handbook.

Anyone got a sensible suggestion for curing the rusty front and rear wheel spindles on my bike?

Phil

Of course, before pressing the starter, you wait until the pump has primed the fuel system i.e. it stops running?

Left hand rear suspension unit, top mounting. The frame tube the mounting bolt threads into is hollow at the back, there will be a wire with a white plastic connector tucked in there, pull it out, that is your charger connector plug.

The bike is negative earth. The point I was trying to make is that my Optimate charger came with a male connector that fitted the Norton female connector, (it only fits one way round) but they were lining up reverse polarity i.e. positive into negative wire.

I live near the sea, and over the years have learned a lot about protection from the salt air and subsequent corrosion. My bikes have the luxury of a hermetically sealed and climate controlled building, so I have no issues with deterioration. You mentioned your garage is damp. don't be tempted to heat it intermittently, as warm air on cold metal starts a layer of surface moisture. The breathable bike cover Norton supply is very good at keeping off surface moisture from our damp winter atmosphere.

961's have a few weak corrosion points such as hollow wheel and swinging arm spindles, where the original plating has not taken in the hollow centre, and rust forms.

Use Bilt-Hamber Dynax UC, an anti-corrosion wax that comes in aerosol form with a long straw. Spray the spindle insides and end, the corrosion will stop, permanently. Most of the 961 fasteners are stainless, but the few zinc plated ones such as exhaust header nuts and starter motor fittings can rust. Use the same wax, or if you want something a bit more invisible, ACF 50, available from most good bike shops, and originally designed to protect planes on aircraft carriers.

Roger

Roger.....thanks for all the good advice. I also live near the seaside and can see the Isle of Wight on clear days.

I do have pots of various anti-rusting goos which work well on slightly corroded steel plates and tubing. I was tempted to use them on my spindles but was warned off doing so. The reason given to me being that they could chemically degrade the special quality of the materials used in the spindles and hence weaken them.

At the first service, which took place this week, the mechanic filled the spindles with water-resistant grease. This was acceptable as a temporary measure and is what the boaty people around me had already suggested I do.

I wondered if, after adding grease, I could push some rubber buttons into the ends to help seal them from the wet. My bicycle has such buttons in the handlebar ends.

I've concluded that we're getting into the 'headlamps always on' territory now. I've had a few bikes which, when you turn the ignition on, switches the the lights on, thus the battery is subject to an unnecessary drain before I want to start the engine - often when I'm trying to set the clock etc. which can take quite some time. Many modern machines have been cheaply 'tweaked' to comply with EU regs. etc. for this functionality i.e. remove light switch, but the proper way to do it is to use a system whereby the lights go on when the engine has started i.e, alternator charging, thus reducing any loss before the bike's charging system 'kicks-in' - I had a company Vauxhall Cavalier in the late '80s that did exactly that - worked a treat!

Hi All,

My 961SF is currently at the factory for a short service and minor warranty work before it expiers in April. Although the battery has been kept on charge with an optimate over winter, it is showing signs of giving up at nearly 2 years old. Again the help and advice I'm getting from the factory is first class. The new technician Mark, is really helpful and knowledgeable and he suggested a Lithium Ion battery would have the greater umf to turn the 961 lump over.

The 961's are fitted from birth with a YTZ14S type battery. Their are many different makes of Lithium batteries out there and the prices are varied. From M&P I found this which they do at £109.99 http://www.mandp.co.uk/index.php/default/ytz14s-fp-jmt-lithium-ion-battery.html

I've also found a small local dealer to me in Shropshire is doing the same battery at £99. The Lithiums are lighter that the old type and smaller so they have a spacer blocks that come with them so they fit the space of the old battery exactly.

I think the only down side with them is their poor performance in very low temperatures and the high price. However, if they last longer and generally perform better, it's got to be worth it. You also need a specialised charger for Lithium Ion batteries and they're not cheap.

So watch this space as I have decided to take the plunge and fit one when the bike is back!

Best wishes, Paul

Paul.........converting a bike to run using a Lithium battery is quite involved. The main problem being the battery generally has to dish out DC volts to run the bike but the system needed to re-charge such a battery has to contain a very complex electrical unit that balances the oomph going back into each cell. The 961 alternator may not be compatible with fitting a system capable of recharging a Lithium Ion battery.

Though I sure the likes of Al Oz has worked a solution out already.

Phil, thanks for that. I shall proceed with caution before committing. I thought it was going to be too easy to 'fit and forget'!

Many thanks,

Paul

Previously Phil Hannam wrote:

Paul.........converting a bike to run using a Lithium battery is quite involved. The main problem being the battery generally has to dish out DC volts to run the bike but the system needed to re-charge such a battery has to contain a very complex electrical unit that balances the oomph going back into each cell. The 961 alternator may not be compatible with fitting a system capable of recharging a Lithium Ion battery.

Though I sure the likes of Al Oz has worked a solution out already.

Hi Andrew . pitty you couldn't fit something like this http://www.wunderlichamerica.com/motorcycle/2024568.html

don't know if you could get one to suit the Norton you have though, you could carry a charged battery in with you to jump off. i think if you keep using a half charged battery to try and start it you will be looking for a starter next.

Baz

Phil,

Doing some further research confirmed your worries about balancing the charge that goes into each cell. When they first became available 6 or 7 years ago, that very problem was apparent and the performance and reliability was sometimes poor.

Speaking to various bike shops and battery suppliers, the early problems have been resolved. The JMT (German made) battery has a balancer unit built in which controls the discharge and charging of each cell within the battery. Everyone I have spoken to says that the alternators on modern bikes are compatible with these batteries. It would appear that they don't like to be charged at over 14.9 V! They also are susceptible to 'bricking' if they are left to discharge fully. Then it's unlikely they can be recovered.

I'm still cautious about them but this seems better news.

Paul.

Previously Paul Watkins wrote:

Phil, thanks for that. I shall proceed with caution before committing. I thought it was going to be too easy to 'fit and forget'!

Many thanks,

Paul

Previously Phil Hannam wrote:

Paul.........converting a bike to run using a Lithium battery is quite involved. The main problem being the battery generally has to dish out DC volts to run the bike but the system needed to re-charge such a battery has to contain a very complex electrical unit that balances the oomph going back into each cell. The 961 alternator may not be compatible with fitting a system capable of recharging a Lithium Ion battery.

Though I sure the likes of Al Oz has worked a solution out already.

I have two bikes fitted with Shorai Li batteries. a 2007 Enfield India Electra X and a 2012 SYM Maxsym 400i scooter. The charging systems on both machines are 'bog standard' and in both cases the batteries work well. The Enfield can be a bit of a b*gger to start but the starter motor seem to be able to crank until the cows come home. The Shorai charger comes in at circa £50 though!.