Swing arm roller bearings

Hi Dave

I have a brand new one sitting in the garage at home, I did post pictures of it on this site some time ago. I bought it in the 80s for £120 as I remember.

Looking at it, it would appear that they have cut off the 2 swing arm bearing housings and replaced them with larger bearing housings that have the roller bearings fitted.

I am just in the process of putting my 850 swing arm together but did not use the roller so it's still sitting in the garage. A guy did reply to the pictures I posted saying that he was using one which was still in operation.

I agree the faces on the gearbox cradle are not the best in the world, and have just ordered up some EP140 in the hope that it will stay within the swing arm a little longer.

It was me who said I've the same taper roller swinging arm still in use. I will be riding the Commando down to the Austria Rally next month if anyone wants a closer look?

Regards, Alan

Hi Dave

Not sure where you live but happy to lend it to you, i am in Bedford.

I bought it for a 750 which i was restoring at the time and for some reason did not fit. Having stripped the 850 i have, it appears that the swing arm with the roller bearing fitted is an 850 reinforced swing arm. The pivot pin supplied with the swing arm has the slots for the cotter pins.

Alan can you post a picture of it fitted as it looks a monster compared to the original, how long has yours been fitted, and did you fit it, any problems with it?

Previously john_neely wrote:

Alan can you post a picture of it fitted as it looks a monster compared to the original, how long has yours been fitted, and did you fit it, any problems with it?

Hi, as a reminder my previous post was:-

"I too bought one of these back in the 1980's, they were displayed at one of the NOC National rallies (if I remember correctly) and I bought one on an exchange basis. I believe the company also ran a small advert in Roadholder at the time. I tried to track the company down about 19 years ago but couldn't find them (R.A.X. of Wolverhampton). I have had mine fitted on both my Commandos at different times and it has been very good in service. Still in use on my 750 Interstate. I did have the end caps spindle come loose a couple of times in use, so I had it "re-designed" to lock into position better. (Tightening the end caps sets the taper rollers for free play. So you don't want it coming undone!)"

I first fitted it myself in 1999 and used it on a 750 Commando that was in Cafe racer style for about 3 years untill the bike was dismantled for rebuild. I then fitted it to my 750 Interstate when restoring it in 2005, it has remained in use since then and has done many miles. (As I said, soon to be ridden down to Austria). The larger bearing housings hardly notice when on the bike. One of the other things that "R.A.X. of Wolverhampton" didduring the conversion of the swinging arm was to weld in the strengthening gussets which converts a 750 type swinging arm into a stronger 850 style gusseted swinging arm. I will try and photograph it "installed" when I get a chance.Regards, Alan

Previously Dave Broadbent wrote:

Alan/John, I look forward to seeing latest pics of Alan's roller bearing swing arm because it would seem that we have two different designs. Having studied John's pics, his swing arm appears to be roller bearings - or possibly a pair of single row ball bearings each side? The end cap appears to be just to keep the muck out?

If your version has taper roller bearings John, then it is obviously a quite different design.

Dave

You'd better look again Dave, I've seen the pictures of Johns swinging arm and am sure it's identical to mine (before I modified it). The end caps are the flaw in it's design (IMHO) as they are not really adequate for setting the taper rollers. I hope to get at my bike tomorrow & take some pictures to post.

Regards, Alan

Dave, there is an alternative: use a 50/50 mix of engine oil and ISO680 liquid grease. A lot more viscous than 140, but still flowing, albeit at a very, very slow rate, thus still fulfilling the function: keeping the spindle bushes lubricated and the moisture out. That is all it has to do.

Here is a picture of my R.A.X. taper roller swinging arm (the bearing housing) showing my modified end plate.

Here is a picture of the R.A.X. taper roller swinging arm showing the welded in strengthening gusset which was part of the original conversion. (sorry it's so dirty, it get used) I'm changing the tyre before Austria so might get better pictures while the wheel is out.

Regards, Alan

Another view with wheel removed, apologies for all the road dirt in there.

Hello. obviously ignore the tractor ref. but its a pity you couldn't drop on something like this type of bearing. i suppose its down to sizes available.

http://www.nskeurope.com/tapered-roller-bearings-tractor-gearboxes-2320.htm

Barry

no commando

Just had a nose on fleabay. There is a chap selling plastic swinging arm bushes. Before you all gasp a last breath and keel over, He is from Australia and these bushes are made from super duper new fangled plastic usede in the underwater world. They do not need lube once fitted and are of a better design with big flanges and thicker bits where needed, Have a look and see what you think.

Hi Dave. like you say a bit of overkill but in my case not knowing the loads/forces being applied not a bad thing. there must be some material out there that will do the job.

Barry

Velo owners can get a metal backed acetyl swinging arm bush which by all accounts works well. I'm not sure whether a bush completely made of acetyl or other plastic would have the load bearing capacity.

I used Spheerol semi liquid grease in my 1931 Sunbeam gearbox. Available in 500g tins. In fact if you're anywhere near Hall Green pop in and I'll give you some! Its main use is for front swivels on earlier Land Rovers.

I seem to remember that the original argument against using grease in the swinging arm was that it blocked up the pores in the bushes but probably most of us don't ride the distances that would bring this to light.

Previously Dave Broadbent wrote:

Thanks for all comments - I'm currently investigating a modern plastic with the same or better mechanical properties as oilite. It will be interesting to see whether the material can meet this criteria.

I have still not managed to find anybody on Ebay advertising anything under "Plastic swing arm bearings" or similar titles, so if you are reading this, Boo cock, and can give me a point in the right direction I would appreciate it.

In the short term I am interested to try the liquid grease idea as the bike will not be coming apart again until winter. Bennie Hulshof suggested ISO680 grease - which I have since found is readily available but in 25 litre drums! A more modest equivalent appears to be a 500g tub of Millergrease EPL 0, which is quoted as semi liquid and recommended for diffs and gearboxes specifying a liquid grease. Near enough I would have thought?

Amaxon shows a brand called Super Lube, in a 1 quart bottle.

I took an empty bottle to a tractor repair shop and had it filled on the spot.

This might be the stuff you are looking for:

http://www.bearingshopuk.co.uk/bearings-bushes/glacier-bushes/

'DX' requires grease, and 'DU' is apparently self lubricating - in which case you'd need polished stainless steel spindles. I think DX is harder and wears better as long as it is lubricated.

I see 'bearing shop' say that DX are lined with PTFE. But that yellow stuff is an 'acetal copolymer' (if I remember correctly - it's 45 years ago I saw them used in bushes in a steel bridge damper system...). Certainly not PTFE (which is softer).

Well at great expense to me I have attached a few pictures for you guys.

I put the swing arm on the bench to take a few pictures and in doing so chipped my newly painted barrels, you know when you start and you think if I don't move that it's going to get damaged and then you think oh I'll chance it......well I was right

This is what is under the cover, the same for both sides

The other end.

Beefy center bolt pulls both end caps together.