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Sticking gears

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I know clutch drag has been discussed to death but I'm not convinced that my 55 ES2 has clutch drag. It is difficult to get into and out of 1st gear yet, on the centre stand, the rear wheel is not dragged round by a sticking clutch.

The spares book shows 5 plates with inserts. Mine has the 5 albiet one is padded on one side only.

If I remove this plate I can get into and out of 1st gear without any real probs.

The questions is; will it make any difference running the bike with only 4 insert plates? Owing to the weather I have not been able to road test with 4 plates fitted.

All views welcomed!

George

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Hello George, i have got gear change problems with my es2 the primary chain keeps tightening up then the difficult gear chainging starts hard to get out of 1st then 3rd 4th difficult to work out. its ok with the chain run on the slack side but the difficult gear chainging starts when the chain is that tight you can play a tune on it. ive adjusted mine one or two times there must be something amiss. my clutch hasnt got the one sided friction plate but is ok. Baz

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Hi Barry, I had the same problem on my 99. The top fixing in the gearbox had seized in the ally and was not allowing the box to move backwards and forwards in the plates. Adjustment seemed to be working but in effect just twisted the box. Easy to tell if its the problem. Just check the box can slide forwards in the plates on the clutch side, thats where the trouble is. No easy fix, You may have to take the engine and box out. Heat and penetrating oil .You could try draining oils,removing battery ,tipping bike on left side and soaking the thing with penetrating oil,then a good whack on the end!.

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Hi Robert i will have a look at that. it was a bit of a mystery but knowing what it could be is a great help thanks . Baz

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To get back to Georges question, I have found going from 1st to 2nd and finding neutral when stationary difficult unless there is absolutely no drag from clutch.Best to find neutral while the bike is still rolling.To ease the dragproblem , the clutch basket plate driving dog slotshave been repairedso there areno notches,I have the pressure plate lift and spin with virtually no wobble, also Iincreased the pull on the handle bar lever by grinding the lever edge (where the cable passes)down so the blade sits further out away from the grip. I also use a minimum amount (160ml) auto trans oil in the clutch case. The main problem now, is the auto trans oil makes theplates stick togetherif left for a few days with no use.

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With my (admittedly japanese) race bikes I cable tie the clutch lever to the bars when leaving the bikes for a few months, that keeps the clutch free. Cheers

dan

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Thanks guys. I've done all the checks/repairs to tabs and slots. My question was more to do with running the clutch with one friction plate less. This brings the outer clutch plate closer to the thrust pin thus giving more movement when the lever is pulled. Would there be more chance of clutch slip?

George

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Hi George...With one plate less you say that:"This brings the outer clutch plate closer to the thrust pin thus giving more movement when the lever is pulled"

This is not case as whatever the total thickness of the linings you have inside the clutch, the clutch worm lever adjustment has to be set in the same position in relation to the push rod end to give same 90 degree angleto the pull of the cable for the lightest action and maximum movement of the push rod. Perhaps this needs to be checked first anyway before removing any friction plates.

However if one pairof plates is removed (plain and friction) you will loose friction in two ways....1) You have lost spring compression power...noting that the Norton clutch has a positive stop on the spring compression boltsunlike the AMC version where you can screw in the 3 adjusters a bit more to increase pressure...2) Loss of 20% of friction area.

I find the Norton clutch needs to have all the plates cleaned thoroughly as any oil coating makes them drag immensely. I would recommend stripping out all the plates and clean them and reassemble dry...then adjust the clutch worm correctly.

If you do remove one set of plates a good initial test is to see if you have enough friction to kick-start the engine without any slip...if you can't, it is obvious the clutch will slip when riding the bike....ATB....Les

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Previously George Phillips wrote:

Thanks guys. I've done all the checks/repairs to tabs and slots. My question was more to do with running the clutch with one friction plate less. This brings the outer clutch plate closer to the thrust pin thus giving more movement when the lever is pulled. Would there be more chance of clutch slip?

George

The plateposition is determinedby the way youfill the space behind theplate.The compression of the spings moves the plate further out. Spring tension is normllyat its maximum 20% of itsclosedlength. Thereforeif yor stack compresses the springsbeyond this20%of the full movementthetendancy toslipsould not change.

Fittheplateand springs withouttheclutchplates,1-Measure thespace between, 2-Measure yourstack height, 3- Measure your plate movement (i.e. space between plate and basket whenclutchis pulled), Insert enoughplates to fillto 20% over the difference between 1 and 3.

Just ensure you are getting maximum movement at themushroom by makingsure your pull is centredover the90 degree angle atthefork and thatyou have the right Handlebar lever ratio, andclearance to thegrip.

Jon

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A superb answer, Jon. Many thanks. I'll pop into the garage this afternoon and give that all a go. I have "standard" levers (albeit retro-fitted) so am not sure what you mean when you say "right handlebar lever ratio". Grip clearance is OK. Not particularly thick grips - just slightly swollen in the middle rather than completely tubular.

Very grateful for your response.

George

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Jonathon newton says:

Spring tension is normllyat its maximum 20% of itsclosedlength....really?...that's new physics to me. So what you are saying is that it makes no difference how many friction plates there are?.... as long as the spring is compressed by 20% the clutch should grip the same....Bet Norton wish they had known this they could have saved quite a bit of money making their clutches....Les

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Previously les_howard wrote:

Hi George...With one plate less you say that:"This brings the outer clutch plate closer to the thrust pin thus giving more movement when the lever is pulled"

This is not case as whatever the total thickness of the linings you have inside the clutch, the clutch worm lever adjustment has to be set in the same position in relation to the push rod end to give same 90 degree angleto the pull of the cable for the lightest action and maximum movement of the push rod. Perhaps this needs to be checked first anyway before removing any friction plates.

However if one pairof plates is removed (plain and friction) you will loose friction in two ways....1) You have lost spring compression power...noting that the Norton clutch has a positive stop on the spring compression boltsunlike the AMC version where you can screw in the 3 adjusters a bit more to increase pressure...2) Loss of 20% of friction area.

I find the Norton clutch needs to have all the plates cleaned thoroughly as any oil coating makes them drag immensely. I would recommend stripping out all the plates and clean them and reassemble dry...then adjust the clutch worm correctly.

If you do remove one set of plates a good initial test is to see if you have enough friction to kick-start the engine without any slip...if you can't, it is obvious the clutch will slip when riding the bike....ATB....Les

Thanks Les. I'm at the stage of trying anything right now!

I've done all those things you mention.

I tried it this afternoon (static test on centre stand holding rear brake on) and found that doing the sums as set out by Jon allowed me to remove the single "double sided" plate (one side pads, the other plain). It made it slightly better but much less than perfect. I did note that with the engine running and the primary cover removed the clutch centre could be seen to stop rotating when the lever was pulled. This makes we wonder whether the problem is inside the g/box?. There is no slip on kickstarting with the single plate removed.

George

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Previously jonathan_newton wrote:

Previously George Phillips wrote:

Thanks guys. I've done all the checks/repairs to tabs and slots. My question was more to do with running the clutch with one friction plate less. This brings the outer clutch plate closer to the thrust pin thus giving more movement when the lever is pulled. Would there be more chance of clutch slip?

George

The plateposition is determinedby the way youfill the space behind theplate.The compression of the spings moves the plate further out. Spring tension is normllyat its maximum 20% of itsclosedlength. Thereforeif yor stack compresses the springsbeyond this20%of the full movementthetendancy toslipsould not change.

Fittheplateand springs withouttheclutchplates,1-Measure thespace between, 2-Measure yourstack height, 3- Measure your plate movement (i.e. space between plate and basket whenclutchis pulled), Insert enoughplates to fillto 20% over the difference between 1 and 3.

Just ensure you are getting maximum movement at themushroom by makingsure your pull is centredover the90 degree angle atthefork and thatyou have the right Handlebar lever ratio, andclearance to thegrip.

Jon

Just to keep you up to dat on, I did as you suggested (without querying th pbysics too much) and found as follows;

Empty clutch gap 28mm

Clutch open 30mm

difference 2mm

stack height (with one plate removed) 28.5

Required stack Ht 28 + 0.2 (30 - 28) = 28.4

So presumably my new stack ht is close enough? Have I interpretd your formula correctly?

I'm assuming whw

at you meant by the 20% figure is that there is no increase in spring pressure after 20% compression. I can't comment in that as it would depend on the design of the spring I assume.

Thanks for your inout.

George

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Previously George Phillips wrote:

A superb answer, Jon. Many thanks. I'll pop into the garage this afternoon and give that all a go. I have "standard" levers (albeit retro-fitted) so am not sure what you mean when you say "right handlebar lever ratio". Grip clearance is OK. Not particularly thick grips - just slightly swollen in the middle rather than completely tubular.

Very grateful for your response.

George

George; I wasthere, 6 months ago. Slipping,dragging, not clearing whenstopped. Theratio at the handle bar refers to the different distances between the pivot for the lever and the cablenipple position; 7/8" and1-1/8" depending on model. My particularcombination was a cable run on the fixed bracket suitable for 7/8"lever but theleverwas 1-1/8" so the cable wasdragging as itcame through thefixed part.The single sided friction plate was part of a dominator set up, I dontknow if it went across the range.

Gladit was of use...

Jon

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Yes it could be the selector mechanism. You have ruled out clutch drag. If you look at the parts diagram you could have wear on the pawl (65 & 66) or the ratchet plate (68) which if worn won't move the cam plate quite as much to shift the cogs into meshing fully. If agear jumps out of mesh then it more likely to be the gear dogs have rounded by wear but this isn't your problem it seems....

Les

Attachments norton-selector-jpg
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Previously George Phillips wrote:

I know clutch drag has been discussed to death but I'm not convinced that my 55 ES2 has clutch drag. It is difficult to get into and out of 1st gear yet, on the centre stand, the rear wheel is not dragged round by a sticking clutch.

The spares book shows 5 plates with inserts. Mine has the 5 albiet one is padded on one side only.

If I remove this plate I can get into and out of 1st gear without any real probs.

The questions is; will it make any difference running the bike with only 4 insert plates? Owing to the weather I have not been able to road test with 4 plates fitted.

All views welcomed!

George

The new bonded clutch plates available today, are thicker than the old cork type. I've noticed that with these plates I couldn't fit them all in so I had to use some old plates until I could assemble the clutch. If you are using this type of clutch plate I can see you may get away with one less.

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Previously jonathan_newton wrote:

Previously George Phillips wrote:

A superb answer, Jon. Many thanks. I'll pop into the garage this afternoon and give that all a go. I have "standard" levers (albeit retro-fitted) so am not sure what you mean when you say "right handlebar lever ratio". Grip clearance is OK. Not particularly thick grips - just slightly swollen in the middle rather than completely tubular.

Very grateful for your response.

George

George; I wasthere, 6 months ago. Slipping,dragging, not clearing whenstopped. Theratio at the handle bar refers to the different distances between the pivot for the lever and the cablenipple position; 7/8" and1-1/8" depending on model. My particularcombination was a cable run on the fixed bracket suitable for 7/8"lever but theleverwas 1-1/8" so the cable wasdragging as itcame through thefixed part.The single sided friction plate was part of a dominator set up, I dontknow if it went across the range.

Gladit was of use...

Jon

Thanks John. I have to say I'm now at my wits end! The lever has a

1 and 1/8" ratio. I've now done everything; adjusted primary chain, cleaned all plates, filed off burrs and notches (weren't really any there), removed the offending "semi-plate"; adjusted operating lever in gearbox; adjusted out any play in cable. As far as I can see there is neither slip nor drag but it will not go into first gear nor back to neutral. With the bike on the centre stand and the engine running the clutch body stops rotating when the clutch lever is pulled therefore there can be no drag yet the final drive sprocket still tries to revolve. Is it possible that drive is being transferred across the shafts in the gearbox?With the rear brake applied it is not possible to select first gear. Let loose the rear wheel and it slips into gear. Pull in the clutch and apply the rear brake and it is now not possible to get back into neutral. Should I be addressing a gearbox problem rather than a clutch problem? If the gears/pinions are worn maybe that would prevent them meshing qwhen stationary? Help!!

Just as well it's wet and windy. I'd really be distraught if this happens in the summer!

Regards

George

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Hi, Did you remove the clutch pushrod clean and lightly oil it?, if rusty it can drag ,but it does sound as if you need to re-set (bend ) the selector spring in the cover ,there needs to be a small amount of clearance both sides of the ratchet thingy !.

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Previously robert_tuck wrote:

Hi, Did you remove the clutch pushrod clean and lightly oil it?, if rusty it can drag ,but it does sound as if you need to re-set (bend ) the selector spring in the cover ,there needs to be a small amount of clearance both sides of the ratchet thingy !.

Thanks Robert. I fitted a new push rod and thrust pin and they are slightly oiled.

I'll try and have a look at the ratchet thingy!

George

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There will always be a certain amount of drag in a countershaft gearbox. This causes the rear wheel to revolve when the engine is running on the mainstand and gearbox in neutral. It's simply caused by oil drag between sleeve gear bush and mainshaft. For some reason, it seems more noticeable on the upright and laydown boxes than on the later AMC type (although the sleeve gear on the early boxes with rollers at one end always seems to me to be a more properly engineered solution).

My rule of thumb test for clutch drag under operating conditions is to attempt to paddle backwards with the machine off the stand and in first gear with clutch lever pulled in. It should be possible without any significant resistance.

There are multiple possibilities to mix and match with Norton clutches. Do you have a plain drum or the type with inserts ? The insert type need a lot of lift if they're not to drag when in use. However, if the problem isn't here then I think that I would be inclined to have a shufty inside the box to make sure that the sleeve gear bushes haven't picked up. Additionally, if the bronze thrust washer is significantly worn then you will have increased end-float on the main shaft and be losing lift as the play is taken up before the clutch starts to separate.

Most problems with old Nortons are the cumulative result of a number of small discrepancies. You may find that there is no single cause.

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Previously richard_payne wrote:

There will always be a certain amount of drag in a countershaft gearbox. This causes the rear wheel to revolve when the engine is running on the mainstand and gearbox in neutral. It's simply caused by oil drag between sleeve gear bush and mainshaft. For some reason, it seems more noticeable on the upright and laydown boxes than on the later AMC type (although the sleeve gear on the early boxes with rollers at one end always seems to me to be a more properly engineered solution).

My rule of thumb test for clutch drag under operating conditions is to attempt to paddle backwards with the machine off the stand and in first gear with clutch lever pulled in. It should be possible without any significant resistance.

There are multiple possibilities to mix and match with Norton clutches. Do you have a plain drum or the type with inserts ? The insert type need a lot of lift if they're not to drag when in use. However, if the problem isn't here then I think that I would be inclined to have a shufty inside the box to make sure that the sleeve gear bushes haven't picked up. Additionally, if the bronze thrust washer is significantly worn then you will have increased end-float on the main shaft and be losing lift as the play is taken up before the clutch starts to separate.

Most problems with old Nortons are the cumulative result of a number of small discrepancies. You may find that there is no single cause.

Thanks Richard.

The "fluid flywheel" effect makes a lot of sense and ties up with what I have observed. I have the clutch sprocket with inserts. I am certain I have not got clutch drag. So after Christmas I shall have to delve into the box. May start a new thread for further assistance on that front!

Have a good Christmas.

Cheers

George

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It's funny how everyone is suggesting cures for clutch drag when in George's first question he says he doesn't really think it is clutch drag. The cogs within the gearbox need to rotate slightly for them to be engaged as usually the dogs are not in line...how many times have you tried to select a gear with the engine not running?....bet most times you cannot find a single gear and then resort to turning the engine manually with the kick-startorwheel the bike a foot or two to line up the dogs for engagement. For engagement to occur there must be sufficient side force to push the cogs into mesh AND a slight differential of the layshaft and mainshaft rotating speeds. When in neutral the main shaft can turn the first gear pinion which is a loose fit on the layshaft and cannot turn it. When you select 1st gear the 2nd gear layshaft cog (splined to the layshaft)is driven into the side of 1st gear layshaft bearing to mesh with it via large dogs & thus transmitting power through the box...(see my set of diagrams) If sufficient thrust or movement is not generated by the selector mechanism 1st gear engagement will be difficult....Les

Attachments nortonamcgearbox-pdf
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Many thanks Les. A superb set of pics which I shall study over Christmas. Yes - these these threads do tend to drift off-topic a bit.

Would you say that difficulty getting into/out of first gear (and second) means the selector is not moving sufficiently or could it be worn mating cogs? It just seems that they do not want to mesh. I imtend to strip it down next year so watch out for more queries - eg what to look for!

Cheers

George

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Previously George Phillips wrote:

Many thanks Les. A superb set of pics which I shall study over Christmas. Yes - these these threads do tend to drift off-topic a bit.

Would you say that difficulty getting into/out of first gear (and second) means the selector is not moving sufficiently or could it be worn mating cogs? It just seems that they do not want to mesh. I imtend to strip it down next year so watch out for more queries - eg what to look for!

Cheers

George

Back again! I've just done another static test in the garage (on centre stand, rear brake on, garage door open!). If I start to let the clutch out whilst attempting to put into 1st then pul it in when I hear/feel the sliding gear pinion start to engage, it goes into gear. But not if I simply pull the clutch in. I'm doing this with the p.chaincase cover removed and I can see that the clutch body ceases to revolve when I pull the clutch in. Therefore - no clutch drag! Blipping the throttle also seems to help in getting it back into neutral. Do these symtpoms point to anything?

Regards

George

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Previously George Phillips wrote:

at you meant by the 20% figure is that there is no increase in spring pressure after 20% compression. I can't comment in that as it would depend on the design of the spring I assume.

Thanks for your inout.

George

I also think that a coil type clutch spring obeys Hooke's law: Force is linearly proportional to compression but 2 important factors have not yet been mentioned:

Imagine a clutch plate were to disappear from the stack. The spring pressure automatically reduces by that reduction in compression so I made some alloy slugs to drop into the spring cups under the springs to keep the tension the same (or slightly higher).

Also imagine you are near the end of your clutch rod adjustment and you remove 1 or more plates. The clutch rod is now too long and the clutch cover is permanently held off the plates. I had to shorten my clutch rod and reharden the end. If you make a mistake it is easy to get some silver steel and remake the clutch pushrod from scratch.

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Previously George Phillips wrote:

Blipping the throttle also seems to help in getting it back into neutral. Do these symtpoms point to anything?

Regards

George

Yep....the symptoms point to the fact that you need to blip the throttle more often.... :)

There are various wear points that contribute to these boxes being a little 'sticky' when looking for neutral at a standstill, including wear on the quadrant and camplate bushes. I suspect that most owners of old Nortons have a technique for selecting neutral just as they come to a standstill...and maybe even for slipping the clutch slightly when selecting first - which doesn't mean that it should be necessary, but it's not the end of the world if that's all it takes.

What is the history of your bike / box ? Some owners would not be above taking a grinder to the edge of the camplate or even the tracks in an attempt to solve all sorts of perceived problems which could cause devilishly difficult symptoms to assess.

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Gents

I chanced upon this in a 1989 'British Bike Magazine' multiple test on 500T Nortons. One bike had a particularly slick gear-change, and this is what the owner said:-

Having tried all remedies, he got hold of a wartime REME manual. This stated the critical setting is 15 thou. of free movement on the clutch thrust washer. Having set up various clutch and gearbox units on the bench, he claimed it really did work. He went on, try various spring combinations to get a straight lift on the clutch, and check there is no play in the actuating mechanism. Fit an involute spring over the exposed bit of clutch cable between the operating lever and gearbox lug.

The final bit of advice was that the free movement on the thrust washer can be lost with an over-tight primary chain, because the tension will pull the clutch sideways against the shock absorber rubbers. He always set the chain at 1" total up and down at mid point, and check carefully there are no tight spots.

Roger

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Previously roger_hainsworth wrote:

Gents

I chanced upon this in a 1989 'British Bike Magazine' multiple test on 500T Nortons. One bike had a particularly slick gear-change, and this is what the owner said:-

Having tried all remedies, he got hold of a wartime REME manual. This stated the critical setting is 15 thou. of free movement on the clutch thrust washer. Having set up various clutch and gearbox units on the bench, he claimed it really did work. He went on, try various spring combinations to get a straight lift on the clutch, and check there is no play in the actuating mechanism. Fit an involute spring over the exposed bit of clutch cable between the operating lever and gearbox lug.

The final bit of advice was that the free movement on the thrust washer can be lost with an over-tight primary chain, because the tension will pull the clutch sideways against the shock absorber rubbers. He always set the chain at 1" total up and down at mid point, and check carefully there are no tight spots.

Roger

Thanks for that Roger. which part no. or Plate Ref No. is the thrust washer? I can't find one in my spares book.

I accept the earlier comment that I could slip it into neutral whilst still moving but I take the view that I shouldn't have to. I'd rather cure the cause than the effect. As for the tight primary chain, I have slackened it a bit but maybe it could do with a bit more. I'll try the 1" total movement and see what happens before I dig into the box.

George

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Geoge, I'm not sure if it's been specifically mentioned, you do have a 'laydown' rather than AMC box, don't you ?

As far as I'm aware (and it's a fair while since I had one apart), the Laydown thrust washer is the same as the upright box - Any Molnar lists them, rather oddly listed under Stainless parts.

http://www.manx.co.uk/pdf/MPL-Norton_Singles.pdf

If you dismantle your box and find that the helical grooves are minimal or non-existent then it's time for a new one.

A2/328 may be the part number

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Previously richard_payne wrote:

Geoge, I'm not sure if it's been specifically mentioned, you do have a 'laydown' rather than AMC box, don't you ?

As far as I'm aware (and it's a fair while since I had one apart), the Laydown thrust washer is the same as the upright box - Any Molnar lists them, rather oddly listed under Stainless parts.

http://www.manx.co.uk/pdf/MPL-Norton_Singles.pdf

If you dismantle your box and find that the helical grooves are minimal or non-existent then it's time for a new one.

A2/328 may be the part number

Yes Richard, it's a laydown. Thanks for that info. I've found it in the parts list. After Christmas, if the weather clears a bit, I'll take it for run and see how difficult 1st gear and neutral are in real life before I start digging. Youve been very helpful.

George

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George / Gents

Not wishing to muddy the waters, as the previous post I put on was relative to a 500T and upright gearboxes, I think the 'clutch thrust washer' mentioned in the article, which I reproduced word for word, is what Norton list as the 'Thrust Pin', i.e. the mushroom shaped part that lifts the clutch end plate, rather than the thrust washer on the gearbox mainshaft.

This would make sense as the article went on to say the clearance on the 'thrust washer' (pin?) would be lost by the clutch being pulled over by an over-tight primary chain, which would not affect the gearbox mainshaft thrust washer. How you measure that 15 thou. may be a bit of a challenge, I guess up at the cable lever / pushrod end. The article did go on to say that with this set up 'the gears slide in like a hot knife through butter' something which we all aspire to!

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Previously roger_hainsworth wrote:

George / Gents

Not wishing to muddy the waters, as the previous post I put on was relative to a 500T and upright gearboxes, I think the 'clutch thrust washer' mentioned in the article, which I reproduced word for word, is what Norton list as the 'Thrust Pin', i.e. the mushroom shaped part that lifts the clutch end plate, rather than the thrust washer on the gearbox mainshaft.

This would make sense as the article went on to say the clearance on the 'thrust washer' (pin?) would be lost by the clutch being pulled over by an over-tight primary chain, which would not affect the gearbox mainshaft thrust washer. How you measure that 15 thou. may be a bit of a challenge, I guess up at the cable lever / pushrod end. The article did go on to say that with this set up 'the gears slide in like a hot knife through butter' something which we all aspire to!

That makes sense, Roger. If I could find the threads per inch on the setting bolt on the clutch cover it would be quite easy to calculate how may turns (or parts of a turn) make 15 thou. Could look at that in due course.

George

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Previously les_howard wrote:

Jonathon newton says:

Spring tension is normllyat its maximum 20% of itsclosedlength....really?...that's new physics to me. So what you are saying is that it makes no difference how many friction plates there are?.... as long as the spring is compressed by 20% the clutch should grip the same....Bet Norton wish they had known this they could have saved quite a bit of money making their clutches....Les

Really... ...justconsider the compensation for plate wear to giveyou a workingrangeand thats your spring length.

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Probably no one is reading this now but just to finalise it (I hope!) I can now confirm that having correctly adjusted the primary chain (required adding a half link) the re-adjustng the rear chain (removing a link) It seems to be behaving itself on a short test run.Shows how cruciial chain tension is!Thanks for all your input.George
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George,

I have a 1955 ES2 and suffered from these difficulties of selecting 1st and neutral. Then at an autojumble I found a stallholder selling new ex WD clutch baskets and so indulged in buying a couple. Now, the difference between the old and the new baskets was that the inserts were loose in the old one, but tight in the new one. My clutch only has plain plates and friction plates with inserts - it does not have the plain one side and bonded friction the other side type.

This made a lot of difference to the operation of the clutch, it may not be perfect but is a lot better. I have got into the habit of slipping it into neutral just as I stop, like other people mention. This is less technical than many replies, but it may offer a different approach to the problem. I have wondered whether the later AMC clutch will fit into my ES2 so that I could see if this gives better gear slection.

Phil Ham

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I have an AMC clutch in my WD16H. It required a very light skim across the back plate to ensure clearance from the inner chaincase but that could have been a chaincase issue - I tried to make sure that it had a decent gap from the gearbox sprocket - it's always a compromise.

It is necessary to retain the original steel pressure plate - there is no room for the AMC pushrod adjuster and alloy pressure plate but this is not needed on the Laydown or upright boxes.

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I have found an article in an old motor cycle magazine about smooth clutch operation and it mentions the problem of drag with Norton clutches being caused by wear on the mainshaft thrust washer. The attached extract and picture shows the thrust washer in the gearbox.

Attachments clutch-drag-on-laydown-gearbox-docx
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Thanks Richard. That's certainly an article for my Norton file.The gear change prob appears to be sorted now. I think it was basically badly adjusted chains. Just waiting for my LED's and I'm set for Spring!George
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Previously George Phillips wrote:
Thanks Richard. That's certainly an article for my Norton file.The gear change prob appears to be sorted now. I think it was basically badly adjusted chains. Just waiting for my LED's and I'm set for Spring!George
One other thing I found on my 1938 ES2. I acquired this as a semi basket case and I suffered from chronic clutch drag despite new plates etc. Having trawled the forum for advice, still no answer. I then discovered that the washers that had been fitted under the clutch spring bolts were marginally larger in diameter than the clutch spring diameter. It was not immediately evident that they were wrong. This caused them to foul the inside of the spring retainer cups and prevented full lift of the pressure plate. When you operated the clutch, it looked like it was pushing the whole clutch away giving the impression of excessive main shaft end float! Slightly smaller washers and neutral is easy every time!Colin

 


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