I'm so sick of draining the oil after my occasional blast that I'm giving in and contemplating installing one of these gizmos. Does anyone have experience fitting one and if so how did the plumbing and pipe fittings work out? Does not look like it will fit at the oil tank outlet which puts us to the engine inlet area. Any guidance appreciated before I make the jump. Photos?
And to the many members who helped me out with parts and tech info over the last 10+ years, here's a photo of the completed project.
Mine has a tap adjacent to the engine. It is very inconveniently inaccessible.
.....my plan is to use the tap with the 1/4 female ports and go into the engine with the cambox oil fitting modified to seal with washers. And input to the tap using the fitting that originally went to the engine. Inconvenient spot alright but what's a guy to do?
You can't have an electrical cutout for the mag unless there is an electrical kill circuit/connector on the mag. You won't be able to fit up any electrical buzzer either as it would need an ignition switch on to enable it. So it looks like your 'oil switch' would have to have a mechanical interference with the 'kick start' or even with a valve lifter? Sounds complicated. Can anyone enlighten us?
.....that Kinpin makes right now with a kill switch.. Fits and works fine so far.
They have a quarter turn micro switched valve with 1/4BSP Female:Male pair to insert inline with your tank outlet. The rest is simple with the kingpin cap. It will improve your “opportunity to ride” ratio and keep the garage a bit cleaner.
Fabulous bike Mike, a job very well done.
Mine is more of a survivor…
if you are so inclined. Many years ago I found a plastic aerosol cap which perfectly fitted in place of the steel points cover. I then fitted a brush holder into the end. It just needed an earthing wire to make a kill system for a magdyno. The magneto was just an accumulation of parts at that point. I made the mistake of leaving it on the points housing when I sent the parts off for a rebuild, and didn't get my improvised kill points cover back. The magneto now works, and I have a standard points cover instead.... intended for my putative Inter engine build. One day !!
PS congrats on the Inter build, it looks superb
....could I get you to take a photo of your arrangement at your leisure? Things look so tight I need some hand-holding to make the jump.
And thanks to everyone else as well.
The lever on the valve has very little space to turn 90 degrees. Mine is articulated so it can be lifted away from being parallel with the pipe. But my exhaust is closer to the bottom bevel box. That gives more cornering clearance, but only finger tip access to the tap.
For the first two years of manufacture, oil cut off was standard. Does anyone have a picture of the factory arrangement from 1932/1933? Factory racers were 1931. Did they have taps?
I dont have one on the Inter, (I use R40, which stays pretty much in the tank). I also have a full wraparound tank with left hand filler.
The Magneto Guys site shows the various pipe connections to suit your machine but as David says, space is limited.
Sorry to go off topic slightly - but Jonathan - that's a nice snug fitting pipe. Do you happen to know where it's from? I bought a new one recently and grounded the silencer clip at a roundabout first time out. Mine is rigid, so probably even less ground clearance than yours.
But the snug fit pipe makes access to a tap even more difficult. I can imagine a ball valve with screwdriver slot might work quite well, because you are only likely to need to turn it off when at home where there's bound to be a screwdriver in easy reach. I have a magneto cut out switch on my Dommie, using the plastic lever on a ball valve to provide the actuator cam. But that also means no screwdriver slot. I imagine one could be arranged.
The only way to drain my oil tank is by removing the bottom hose. So that needs to be reasonably easy to do.
The machine is a 37 Inter MS built into a 48 Plunger frame. Most of the running gear plus motor/ gearbox and exhaust header are from the 37 Machine; Plunger frame, forks and tank are around 48. Silencer is BSA, seat is ES2.
For this machine I would be more inclined to fit the Velocette style ball valve as (att). My Commando has the Mick Hemmings version, the Dommies are easy enough as they can mount in line with the pipework.; and the Venom [FOR SALE] stays dry.
This is the setup on my 1936 Inter, gas/oil type ball valve with the handle being the cut out to earth from a standard cap for a ring cam type magneto. The valve handle, a homemade alloy extension, is very close to the exhaust pipe but can be operated by hand.
for a common problem. I don't think I can fit anyone's switch/tap in the allotted space so I'm going to go with a bare tap and a warning device bungied to the tap and handlebars and hope for the best. Thanks to everyone.
This is what I would consider for the Inter. I’m fortunate at present as it holds up pretty well. A great advantage when you can just go out without the draining task
and I borrowed one to check the fit under the tank but I don't think it will sneak in there.
There should be room at the crankcase inlet. It would need thread adapters. How safe are they? Is the suction from the Norton pump the same as that from the Velocette? I'm sorry to admit I rely on a magnetic card notice on the fuel tank. It only comes off after I open the valve. The big risk is not so much when starting in the morning, but when testing after maintenance.
A rare combination.
...just been to Kempton Park and saw yet another way round this warning. A traditional in line on/off switch (a la washing machines!) with a bent plate captivated when the tap is off. The other end of the plate goes over the gear lever. So you cannot engage gear with oil off. Obviously you h ave to leave the bent plate at home and obviously you have to remember to re fit it but-no electricity needed.
... since replaced by a Yamaha non-return valve, I had a magnetic "Oil" label that I used to stick on the advance / retard lever as that was always used when starting. It's only necessary to close the valve when leaving the bike for weeks rather than hours or days unless the oil pump is well past its best.
....I decided to buy this valve I found online and local. Of course it didn't fit in the space so I turned down the inlet end to clear the underside of the footrest mount tube. Then I ditched the knob as there was no room for it. Then I had to face the outlet a bit to get the valve control facing out. As luck would have it, the square engagement with the knob is slightly under 3/8" so I made a key out of an allen socket and a T-handled allen wrench. So far so good. With multiple reminder devices, I should be good.
Turning oil on/off with with a separate tool strikes me as a 'backward' step? If it was in your pocket and got dropped on the road? But there again if you had a 'finger' tap could you turn it off when out and forget to turn it back on? One of our members did this-got half way home before the engine stopped 'very hot' BUT his engine did survive. HUM??
... you don't need to turn it off for brief stops, only when left for weeks. So no need to carry the key.
be nice if you could fit a 6 or 12 volt miniture oil pump with a push switch in the system. to pump the oil back into the tank from the sump.
Michael was doing this as a workshop only close. I only close mine if the machines are laid up for a month or more.
There isn't even a dipstick hole into a Norton sump to put a suction tube from a pump into.
I'm fortunate that my 16H takes weeks to wet sump. But, if it does, I simply start it up and run it gently until the oil returns. All the interesting bits get plenty of splash lubrication straight away and (like the other Singles) it has no shell big end or main bearings to suffer from lack of instant oil pressure.
I doubt if the pressure side of the pump ever fully empties anyway, so even the OHC engines will push some oil up to the cams as soon as the engine is turned over. There are no garter seals to blow out, so do we worry far too much?
......mine sumps up in a few weeks and soon (6 weeks or so) will fill to the crank shaft level where it empties out the breather. As Jon says, this is a shop only shutoff but I did make a second, smaller version to carry along in a pocket or toolbox... Time will tell. I'm a born worrier.
What grade oil you using Mike? Six weeks isn't excessive enough to warrant a pump strip especially now you have that neat solution.
...mineral oil. I'm nursing a funky foot and knee so the old girl can sit for a longer while than I would hope. Getting old a drag but beats the alternative. And so, after patient, unremunerated toil, I have determined that in this application, one cannot fit the mag cutoff device unless it is fitted mid oil line, which I rejected as offensive. It just won't fit at either end of the line.
But don’t stop… it’s another step towards the inevitable.
Because you have made it a very positive action to carry out before you start, you will soon get into the habit. Also the memory of the draining performance will keep a smile on your face as you reach for your “key”.
Remember the aches and pains diminish as you ride. It’s a smashing looking machine I bet it’s an absolute joy to run out on. What is your location Mike? Your central west if I remember right. Very best regards
...across the bay from San Francisco. A great little island town but a long, congested ride from good motorcycling. Here's a shot from a few blocks away. My domestic supervisor in the foreground, our municipal WWII aircraft carrier, the Hornet, in the midground, and SF in the distance.