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Sticky Roadholders

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I'm at my wits' end with this one. I hope someone can come up with an answer.

1960 slimline 88 with short Roadholders. New stanchions, bushes, seals. Fork yokes checked and straightened by an expert.

So I assemble the forks onto the bike, bounce the front end up and down with all the fasteners loose. It's stiff but maybe that's just because of the new parts, at least there's suspension movement.

I tighten the fasteners working down from the top: stem nut, stanchion nuts, pinch bolts, bouncing at each stage to check there's still movement. So far so good.

But when I tighten the wheel spindle nut on the brake side (the pinch bolt side still being loose) the forks lock up solid.

Why?

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Once you have the spindle tight, the opposite fork slider should be free to align at the wheel spindle, i.e. you should be able to push it in and out by flexing it at the wheel spindle position. If it is tight on the spindle before the pinch bolt is done up then you will never get parallel fork action. Check the spindle is a comfortable sliding fit in the left hand slider (without the wheel in position) and then check that the pinch bolt actually does nicely 'pinch' the spindle.

If this doesn't work then maybe you fork stanchions are out of line or not parallel

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if you slacken the spindle enough to rotate it around while doing so look at the top of the wheel and observe if the wheel moves from side to side if so the spindle is bent pulling the sliders out of alignment.

Barry

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Good Morning Rob - Did the top yoke fit on easily to the stanchion tubes and column or did it require a hide mallet ? With the wheel, the front mudguard and bracketry removed ensure that the wheel spindle alignment is OK and passes through both legs satisfactorily. I have known very worn fork sliders nip-up on a new standard size bottom bush. The only way to recover that is careful machining and an oversize bottom bush. You mention new stanchions....are they from a reputable supplier ? There are some bad boys out there flogging poor copies..beware. Good luck , Howard

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Thanks for all your replies, which I've just checked. I took out the wheel and removed the mudguard and bridge first. This is what I've come up with:

Originally the fork stem was out of alignment with the top yoke so that the tubular part of the fork top nut was very hard to locate in the hole. After the yokes were straightened the nut fitted easily, as did the stanchions into the tapers.

The wheel spindle is free to slide through the left slider and the pinch bolt pinches. The spindle isn't bent, according to Barry's test.

Sighting across the forks suggests that end of the right leg is slightly forward in relation to the left leg. The wheel spindle jams as it enters the right slider, suggesting either a bent stanchion or yoke, right forwards or left backwards.

The right slider can be extended fully downwards until the bush on the stanchion contacts the bush in the slider. But it sticks when pushing upwards against the spring.

The left slider is quite free to push upwards against the spring but won't extend fully downwards, even by hammering. It jams solid.

After rebuilding the forks I noticed, as Howard mentions, that the left stanchion tended to stick in the bottom of the slider, but it could be freed with a good pull so I hoped it would free up in use.

When I first re-fitted the forks to the bike both sliders were fully extended but the left one projected downwards slightly more than the right one, This is something I've seen reported on a Commando, either here or on accessnorton, I can't remember which.

I've tried loosening everything off, including freeing the stanchions from the tapers in the top yoke, re-fitting the wheel (the spindle was impossible to get all the way through the right slider) and twisting the handlebars with the wheel gripped between my knees, but it makes no difference.

The bike came with a Norvil invoice for various engine parts, so the stanchions may have come from there, but I've no proof.

So it seems I have a problem with worn sliders, for one thing, and a misalignment caused by a bent yoke, probably. Or a stanchion, which is easy to check when I strip the forks, as seems will have to be done. The yokes were worked on by a well-regarded frame and wheel builder in West Yorkshire, so if they're still not straight I don't know where to go. Any suggestions within about 50 miles of Sheffield?

As for "careful machining of the sliders", would valve grinding paste be worth a try to start with, to fit the stanchion bushes to the sliders? Can't do any harm I suppose. I don't doubt Howard's knowledge, but I don't see why they would jam because of wear, I'd have thought they would be too loose if anything. I'm sure I'm about to be enlightened!

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Yes - You're quite right in what you're saying if they are only slightly worn - but if they are so worn that they have been 'chattering' under braking for instance (as was happening with mine) then the bush can stick on its way up, until the bush reaches a less worn area higher up. If that is the case grinding paste won't help I'm afraid. The only way was to machine the whole leg until the worn area was removed and hence the requirement for an oversized bottom bush. I hope that is not the case with yours...... Cheers, Howard

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I would not be putting valve paste on a bush or down a slider, it will embed itself in the soft alloy and then carry on wearing out the slider/bush.

The slider could be bent, I have a BSA slider that jams in the bottom inch of travel right next to a welded on bracket, it only jams with both bushes fitted, with the bottom bush alone on the slider it will not jam so its something to do with alignment between the 2 bushes which means its the slider. It sits on a bench awaiting a fix which I have yet to dream up.

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Obvious question but have you tried rotating the stanchion 90% at a time and retested to see if it helps?

It doesn't sound like your problem but the mudguard bridge can put too much pressure on the sliders pulling them in and causing similar problems if you are tightening that up before testing

dan

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Since my last reply I've looked at it again and discovered why the right leg extended so much further than the left: when I took the stanchion top nut off, the damper rod wasn't connected to it! Either a senior moment, or it unscrewed when I was loosening everything.

I also read Dan's mind before his reply arrived, and rotated the stanchion to a point where I imagined it looked a little better. I then tightened everything in the correct order, starting with the fork top nuts, not with the stem nut as I mistakenly did before, and the forks now move reasonably well. I haven't yet re-fitted the mudguard, but if I can do that leaving everything tightened up I hope it won't upset things.

I'm not convinced the handlebars are in alignment with the wheel, but at least now I can try riding it. There is some fore and aft play in the sliders so I'll see what the MOT tester has to say. I suspect re-boring them would be a good idea, if I can find someone to do it.

The brake stop was rocking in the groove in the slider when the brake was applied so I used my usual method of jamming in a spare feeler gauge of an appropriate thickness.

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There has to be a market for reboring roadholder sliders and providing over size bushes? But I understand it's not an easy job.

dan

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I had a first ride today. The forks appear to be working, wheels are in line, steers straight hands-off, goes round corners like a Featherbed should. The only thing is that the handlebars are turned a bit to the right when the wheel is straight ahead. Is this an MOT fail? I suppose it means a twisted yoke.

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No, the bars themselves are straight. I loosened off the bottom yoke pinch bolts and the stem nut, clamped the front wheel and twisted the bars hard, and it seems to have done the trick. There's some play in the sliders but it passed the MOT today so it'll do for now.

Sorry this has been a bit of a non-issue in the end, but thanks for everybody's input.

Now onto the next problem...

 


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