SS650 Switches and Lghts

Previously wilf_pyne wrote:

Ive just bought a 1967 SS650 which is in a pretty odd state. It has many new parts

including a wiring loom which is not connected. It has a headlamp shell with

Ampmeter and a small hole, It has the metal Speedo / Revcounter bracket with instruments but no switches or lamps. could someone tell me what switches I

need, with Lucas? numbers, and what the three small holes are for (lamps I assume)

But what for and in what order.

Cheers Wilf.

Helo Now for your year these Norton 650ss had been upgraded to 12volts so you need the SA88 lighting switch and a barrel switch for the ignition best placed in the back of the tool tray out of the way of eyesight the very small hole in the middleof headlamp is for a Lucasbadge with its chrome bezel see Norton owners parts for these items and you need to follow the Haynes Norton Twins wiring guide for 12volt and coil ignition as the Atlas was the same, as 650ss for the same year , yours Anna J Dixon

For what it's worth, I bought a 650ss brand new e reg early/mid 1967 and it was fitted with a k2fc magneto - my mate bought an f reg atlas, which was fitted with the tin can type distributed, so both types were fitted in 1967

Terry

Previously terry_odlin wrote:

For what it's worth, I bought a 650ss brand new e reg early/mid 1967 and it was fitted with a k2fc magneto - my mate bought an f reg atlas, which was fitted with the tin can type distributed, so both types were fitted in 1967

Terry

hello yes but both had the SA88 lightingswitch yours Anna J

Previously anna jeannette Dixon wrote:

Previously terry_odlin wrote:

For what it's worth, I bought a 650ss brand new e reg early/mid 1967 and it was fitted with a k2fc magneto - my mate bought an f reg atlas, which was fitted with the tin can type distributed, so both types were fitted in 1967

Terry

hello yes but both had the SA88 lightingswitch yours Anna J

I didn't think that I was disputing that fact, merely pointing out that both ignition systems were used in 1967.

Terry

Hi Wilf,

If you wish to PM me I can send you the Norton spares book & the Lucas spares book to assist with your project.

In the lists, it shows your bike would have had the 5966A headlamp, which had the 36296A ammeter in the center, with one warning lamp to the right & one warning light to the left of the ammeter The hole below the ammeter was the 34289A light switch.

here are some pics of it:

http://www.oldbritts.com/17_59666a.html

Where it gets tough, is many of these numbers were updated over time, and different numbers are used now. As an example, the ammeter is now called a 36043 & is currently offered by Lucas.

The '67 650ss had a Lucas K2F magneto 42453A & the 650ss never had a distributor. In '67 the P11 was the only Norton twin with a dist., but in '68 the Atlas, P-11, and Commando came with distributors.

All the best,

Skip Brolund

Hi skip, you probably are right about the 650ss not having a distributor in 1967, the dealer that I bought the bike off and proddy raced sold me a 650 engine from an insurance write off (I paid £25.00 for it t the time!) but that would be in 1970, so possibly from a mercury, but it did have a distributor fitted, which ended up on a racing outfit. I cannot remember the engine No.

My mates 1967 atlas (early f tag'd) I am sure was fitted with a distributer which was changed for a mag when we both went proddy racing in 1968, (apparently developing a high rev misfire with the distributor).

Always good to get your constructive comments!

Terry

Just to be pedantic!, the only 650 to get a dissy was the early 650 std and 650 DL which had the same as the 88/99DL. The twin points unit was fitted to the late Atlas ,Mercury etc fired twin coils so cannot be described as a dissy, We all know this of course but newcomers to the game may get confused.

Previously robert_tuck wrote:

Just to be pedantic!, the only 650 to get a dissy was the early 650 std and 650 DL which had the same as the 88/99DL. The twin points unit was fitted to the late Atlas ,Mercury etc fired twin coils so cannot be described as a dissy, We all know this of course but newcomers to the game may get confused.

Morning Robert, you are quite fight to point that out, I don't know the technical name for the coil ignition unit with twin point set up that I called a distributed! I am sure someone will enlighten me shortly!!

(I did have a 1960 99 which was originally fitted with the distributor)

Thanks. Terry

Hello All, I think that I can offer a solution to this disagreement. Some people call the points-holder on the later twins a distributor - when it clearly is not. They call it this because, on the later 600/500 Dommies they did have a distributor - to distribute the spark from the single coil to each cylinder via a rotor arm in the distributor cap. This distributor also held the single set of points and was 6 Volts. The later system fitted on 12V 650s and Atlass (including Matchless/ AJS hybrids) used a small alloy housing to s support a shaft running in proper ball bearings. This housing held two sets of points to fire two coils and the advance/retard mechanism. So there was no need for a distributor. People often replaced both systems with magnetos. Usually because they had problems with the electrickery. Cheers, Howard

Previously howard_robinson wrote:

Hello All, I think that I can offer a solution to this disagreement. Some people call the points-holder on the later twins a distributor - when it clearly is not. They call it this because, on the later 600/500 Dommies they did have a distributor - to distribute the spark from the single coil to each cylinder via a rotor arm in the distributor cap. This distributor also held the single set of points and was 6 Volts. The later system fitted on 12V 650s and Atlass (including Matchless/ AJS hybrids) used a small alloy housing to s support a shaft running in proper ball bearings. This housing held two sets of points to fire two coils and the advance/retard mechanism. So there was no need for a distributor. People often replaced both systems with magnetos. Usually because they had problems with the electrickery. Cheers, Howard

Hello the question was what lighting switch do I need, WhichI have answered this question lighting switch for all post-1965 Norton twins SA88 yours anna j

The 99 motor may have the earlier 6v alternator which can be used to run a 12v system and coil , it can work with the later switch as long as you have charging control system ,either a zener diode in a heat sink and seperate rectifier or a more modern rectifier/regulator which will be simpler to wire and better than the cheap pattern zeners that are about these days. You could also fit a Mag instead or a relatively expensive but good self contained BTH ignition. The old 18d2 dissy is probably a bit worn now and will need regular maintenance. If you go this route you could run daytime lights to avoid overloading the zener/regulator with unused coil current.

Previously wilf_pyne wrote:

Previously robert_tuck wrote:

The 99 motor may have the earlier 6v alternator which can be used to run a 12v system and coil , it can work with the later switch as long as you have charging control system ,either a zener diode in a heat sink and seperate rectifier or a more modern rectifier/regulator which will be simpler to wire and better than the cheap pattern zeners that are about these days. You could also fit a Mag instead or a relatively expensive but good self contained BTH ignition. The old 18d2 dissy is probably a bit worn now and will need regular maintenance. If you go this route you could run daytime lights to avoid overloading the zener/regulator with unused coil current.

Thanks Rob! from the engine number and the books I recon the engine is late 1960 and I hope a 12v system. The bike has a new horn , coil, distributor, sealed beam unit and it looks like a new regulator and of course the new wiring loom which appeared in the advert. When the tank and saddle were removed the loom was found to be attached to the rear light , an ignition switch behind the oil tankand the new regulator, A last comment as we loaded the bike was'the bulb has blown oh! and it over charges'. It could be a bigger job than anticipated. Oh! and it has an MOT?

hello blown bulbs are down to a bad earth to frame or headlamp

yours a merryXmas

The alternator may be the earlier 6v type but is happy to provide 12v anyway,even with the dissy and coil (which needs to be 12v if thats where you are going) there will be an excess of electricity to the battery unless you include the regulator. The 60 dommy did not need a regulator only a rectifier as it had the complex psr8 switch to control the charge , if you are going 12v you don't want a psr8! horrible thing.Put in extra earths including one to the headlamp shell. The wiring is going to be a bit non standard .You need to first decide what ignition system you want ,then go from there. If I was starting again I would like a magneto like the SS had,and 12v with indicators and decent headlamp with power for satnav/heated gloves etc, The old 6v alt can be a bit marginal but may cope, mine does. Would also consider changing the polarity to neg earth for the toys .

Previously robert_tuck wrote:

The alternator may be the earlier 6v type but is happy to provide 12v anyway,even with the dissy and coil (which needs to be 12v if thats where you are going) there will be an excess of electricity to the battery unless you include the regulator. The 60 dommy did not need a regulator only a rectifier as it had the complex psr8 switch to control the charge , if you are going 12v you don't want a psr8! horrible thing.Put in extra earths including one to the headlamp shell. The wiring is going to be a bit non standard .You need to first decide what ignition system you want ,then go from there. If I was starting again I would like a magneto like the SS had,and 12v with indicators and decent headlamp with power for satnav/heated gloves etc, The old 6v alt can be a bit marginal but may cope, mine does. Would also consider changing the polarity to neg earth for the toys .

Hello NO Manxman's or 650ss were fitted with PRS8 lighting switches there are only two lighting switch used on these motorcycles On the First Machine from November 7th, 1960 the SA41 lighting switch was used this stayed with these machinesright up late 1964 then they were changed to the SA88 lighting switch for 12 volts but you can still use the Sa41 for an upgraded12 volt lighting and for your toys you can use a bank of LXR plugs or Nu-trix plugs or mini pin stereo pugs or UBSplugs on a separate wiring up to battary to neg and pos feed the PRS8 were only used on coil ignition motorcycles, like the de-lux and standard 650s yours anna j

Hi Anna, he does not have a Manxman or a 650SS,its a mongrel with a 60 99 engine and coil ign system.

Previously robert_tuck wrote:

Hi Anna, he does not have a Manxman or a 650SS,its a mongrel with a 60 99 engine and coil ign system.

Do you meana bitsa with a coil ignitionmotor well he needs a 650 de-lux /std 0r model 99 prs8 switch then these are now getting expensive and he need the wiring harnesstoo, and the right alternatorlike the RM15 with emergencycoils fitted so you can start the bike when the batteryflat yours anna j stay safe

Previously wilf_pyne wrote:

Sorry I have not replied to your helpfull comments but family matters intervened. I have however bought several books on the subject from which I discover that I have 1967 650ss running gear with a late 1960 99 engine which has a distributor, it has the speedo and rev counter on a single bracket (but no rev counter cable or the correct timing cover )all of which seems to point to Anna's SA88 lighting switch.

The person who did all these horrible things to a good bike would probably damage a Leggo model.

Thanks to you all for your keen interest there my yet be more probs

cheers

Wilf.

Now look on EBAY and you FIND your self A early NORTON MANXMAN MOTOR WITH GEARBOX FOR £2200 a gift at this price yours anna j ps stay-safe