Could be a tight chain.

The open-valve side valves do whir and clatter quite a lot. Could you post a You Tube link ?

Sounds quite normal for a 16H of that age, to me.

Video might help identify anything out of the usual.

These are noisy engines. (I suspect the whirling noise from the gearbox)

Following Neil's comment...is the gearbox full of oil?

It does sound like a chain...could the magneto drive be over-tight ? Dynamo drive gears can make some pretty horrible whining noises too.

The mag chain cover is quick and easy to remove and the dynamo doesn't require a lot more work to withdraw it. I'd try those first.

Thanks for the nice long clip , Gary. I'd drag mine out for comparison were it not for being in hibernation and with a Dommie racer to put back together. (I'm getting there Jon) There was never a whirl anyway, just the usual clatter on my 16H

To state the obvious the whirl increases with the revs.

Have you greased the valves via the nipples? I changed all of my grease nipples to the later type because I found I couldn't get enough grease in with the earlier (WD) type. Good idea to check all of the engine / gearbox grease points. Does the oil pressure guide on the timing case come up once running? Making the assumption that piston clearances are in order.

PS: While your mag was apart: I hope you had an easy cap fitted... But that is another topic. 

I suspect Richard has the answer. Dynamo drive. It's easy to remove and replace.

I like the look of the old plain grease nipples. I'd like to put them back on my single #2, but nobody sells them. A push-on grease gun works fine as long as you put a scrap of old cotton shirt over the nipple to improve the seal. When I put my 16H back on the road there were a couple of problem grease nipples. I swapped for new ones with a modern clip on grease gun. Then cleared the old ones in a vice on the bend and put them back. All fine ever since.

Hi Gary,

My 16H is standard bore too and was within useful bore, but there was a top ridge I had to work on before preparing the bore and painting. (VHP)

I bought a NOS 1940's piston in its grease packing from a singles dealer long out of business.

What I'm suggesting is the top piston ring might have broken a bit off.  Let's hope not but at least on a SV it is easy to check.

Good luck.

Hello Gary, I noted in the video that the whirring noise was apparent when you were kicking the bike over i.e. even before the engine was running thus most chains/gears etc. in the engine will be in a sort of 'no-load' situation at this point thus perhaps this points to a gearbox issue. What happens when you pull the clutch with the engine running (ideally completely disconnecting the engine/gearbox i.e. no drag) - does the whirring stop/diminish?

Hi Gary,

It`s hard to tell from a static video where the noise might be coming from. You can use a large screwdriver as a stethoscope by putting the tip of it on each suspect part of the engine in turn while placing your head on the handle near your ear. you will be able to hear inside quite clearly.

All the best, Al

It does sound like a tight chain to me.  Have you checked the tension on the primary chain?

David, the Vincent Owners Club sell the original Tecalmit type nipples. I bought some for my 16h a couple of weeks ago. 

 I thought maybe tight primary. It's easy enough to check by popping the inspection cover off.

Gary - how is it running without a mag chain?

Thanks Mark!

Maybe a daft guess...but have you tried with the valve cover removed ? I'm assuming this is an open tappet engine and I've never seen a cover without witness marks from the valve springs. I space mine out a little.

They do whirr , compared with more modern side valves...It's difficult with sound recordings to know if some sounds are normal or exaggerated.

You don't have any practical jokers in the household who might be hiding out of sight with a washboard and a stick, do you ?

If the primary was very tight it will most likely have damaged  bearings, main, gearbox or clutch .

You can pick up noisy bearings using the screwdriver stethoscope 

The doll's head is easy to get inside while still on the bike.  Only detach the clutch cable and 7 nuts (and move exhaust). It has to be worth looking inside.  The sleeve gear won't come out unless you remove the clutch, but all the rest does.  WD 16H manual is a free download and covers your bike.

As David said the Dolls head box is easy to work on in the frame BUT I would removed the primary too.

I had thought about drive side mains (Still possible) but then I remembered replacing the sleeve bearing over 20 years ago. I got it from RGM and I'm sure it is the same part as a Commando.

These bikes were designed to be stripped right down in the field using only the tool kit supplied.

+ all the lube was grease and SAE 50.  (Today I would put something lighter in the primary and something a little heavier in the Dolls head,,,EG EP 140 or oil. grease) 

I use a Andover Norton and RGM or Simply bearings for the more common stuff. Dave Coates is a good man to do a rebuild if you don’t want to, but they are easy enough to work on.

dan 

Hi Gary,

   Dave Coates does not have a website as he is like most of us Ludites who grew up pre internet. His phone numbers are 01635 862986 or 07866 670390, unless he has changed recently, and he lives near Thatcham. He will most likely have a stall at  VMCC Founders Day this Sunday.

   Most bearing dealers should be able to order bearings in if you give them the Imperial dimensions. Get the main drive one with a single side seal. A word of warning regarding lubrication, EP gearbox oil can re-act with phospher-bronze bushes and corrode the surfaces.

Richard,

With regard to EP Gearbox oil, it was indeed the case that this oil was harmful to 'yellow' metal.

However, companies such as Castrol, what I use,  make a range of EP gearbox oil that are not harmful in old gearboxes.

It was the sulphur additive that caused the damage but has for a long time been replaced by synthetics.  Look for GL4 ClassiC on the tin and beware of very old stock.

Hope this helps.

Hi Neil,

  Thanks for the up-date and clarification.

who sells Norton parts, met at Kempton Park a while back.  I chatted with him a while back about modified Norton boxes, including fitting AMC cam plates to earlier boxes.  I wish I had taken a card from him.

He took a stall near the entrance end, close to the grandstand.  Is this David Coates?

Hi Paul,

   When you enter Kempton go up the concrete steps, keep to the left hand side and Dave is about 4 or 5 stalls along. He is in his 70s now but still enthuiastic. His main gearbox customers are period Commando motocross sidecar racers, but does road spec boxes as well. He usually has a variety of Norton single/twin parts for sale. At this Sunday's VMCC Founders Day rally he wil be in one of the centre pitches.

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