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Submitted by r_johnson on Sun, 04/10/2015
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Nortons - General

Hello, I just recently brought a dominator 88. It's a 1954 frame running what I can work out as a 1961 engine. The previous owner said the engine was built/modified by a Fred Barlow. Any recognise it or can give me some more info it would be apppreciated.

Thanks. Roy.

Attachments imag0714_1-jpg

Submitted by paul_webb on Sun, 04/10/2015

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Hello Roy,

Welcome to the forum.

I am not convinced that your frame is circa 1954 as they should be what is called a bolt up type frame.

what is the frame number? You should be able to see on the gusset to the rear of the engine. If it is 1954 manufacture then it would start with the letter 'J'.

Regards, Paul.

Submitted by Xanna_jeannett… on Sun, 04/10/2015

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Previously paul_webb wrote:

Hello Roy,

Welcome to the forum.

I am not convinced that your frame is circa 1954 as they should be what is called a bolt up type frame.

what is the frame number? You should be able to see on the gusset to the rear of the engine. If it is 1954 manufacture then it would start with the letter 'J'.

Regards, Paul.

Hello welded up rear loops on the wideline was from September of 1954 , So this frame was made after this date, the 1954 model 88 had Half hubs front and rear too ! the Engine is early 1961 model 88 the 88SS did not come out until April 1961, using parts from the Norton Manxman 650 Export machine has Did the Model (99SS) yours Anna J

Submitted by jonathan_soons on Sun, 04/10/2015

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I believe the 2 carburettor set up is after market and the rear brake and swinging arm are of the later type but these are all good things. The main thing is to make sure you have good oil pressure and correct ignition timing (among other things) if you are going to ride it; any necessary work will then come to light.

I think the manual ignition advance is an SS feature but someone else will know.

Submitted by richard_cornish on Sun, 04/10/2015

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Hi Roy,

On the early featherbed frames, bolt-up and fully welded, the radius of the rear top curve is much larger than the later frames and this was changed for the 1956 season. Your frame has the later type curve so if it is a Dominator frame would be between 1956 to '59 as the slimline was introduced for 1960. The singles used the wideline frame for a further year, possibly to use up any widelines already made. It might be possible your frame was a later replacement back in the day or may even be a cloned modern replica. It might be best to check out the number with the club records. Regards, Richard.

Submitted by robert_tuck on Mon, 05/10/2015

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Lovely,thats my sort of bike,lots of history and patina. Can't see a head steady in the photo's ,If you run without one the frame will deform .Motor was most likely an 88c with distributor and coil ignition .

Submitted by jonathan_soons on Tue, 06/10/2015

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Previously richard_cornish wrote:

Hi Roy,

On the early featherbed frames, bolt-up and fully brazed,

According to Ken Sprayson these frames were welded, unless he left out some history.

Submitted by gordon_johnston on Tue, 06/10/2015

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It's an 88 engine. The engine number is correct for an 88 (though of course you can use 88 crankcases for a 99). The barrels have 8 fins which means they are 88. 99s and 650s have 9 fins. The head is pre-downdraught with twin carbs. 389s are a bit on the big side for an 88. 376s would be more appropriate. The carb manifold does look aftermarket - I have a similar one on my shelf. Being inclined to idleness, I prefer a single carb but that's just me.

Looks like it could be a fun machine.

Submitted by r_johnson on Tue, 06/10/2015

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Thanks Gordon. What about the gearcase? It runs magneto and alternator, I thought 88 had distributor and coil?

Submitted by jonathan_soons on Tue, 06/10/2015

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Previously r_johnson wrote:

Thanks Gordon. What about the gearcase? It runs magneto and alternator, I thought 88 had distributor and coil?

Coil from 1963 - 1966

Submitted by richard_cornish on Tue, 06/10/2015

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Previously Jonathan Soons wrote:

Previously richard_cornish wrote:

Hi Roy,

On the early featherbed frames, bolt-up and fully brazed,

According to Ken Sprayson these frames were welded, unless he left out some history.

Sorry, meant welded.....head is too full of garden gate stuff. Richard.

Submitted by david_cooper on Tue, 06/10/2015

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The motor is an 88 (prefix 122) and the number (according to the Late Great Roy Bacon ) alsoe matches a model 88. Engine 96572 looks like within a month or two after March 1961.Frame J12255805 is also model 88 (i.e. 122) and date letter J is 1954. Number 55805 looks plausible for that year. Welded back end was model year 1955 so that design change started (possibly, probably?) sometime around September 1954.The head looks like Bacon's pics for date around 1960-61 before the downdraft head used first in the Manxman. So it looks like the head belongs to the cases.It should have had coil ignition at that date (unless it was an 88SS which it was not or it would have been stamped 88SS instead of 122). So it looks as if somebody changed it (for something better)Anyway - if you have enough documents to license it - what does it matter? Have fun with it and welcome to the fold!No doubt you will soon acquire lots of books on the subject and you, too, will become expert in a tiny bit of the possible range of human knowledge.

Submitted by r_johnson on Wed, 07/10/2015

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Thanks very much David and everyone for sharing the knowledge. It's been very interesting working out what I have here, such a mix.

Submitted by gordon_johnston on Wed, 07/10/2015

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Stick with the magneto! One of the first things I did with my 99 was to ditch the distributor and fit a magneto and have never regretted it. That was 45 years ago. How time flies.

Submitted by alan_clarke2 on Wed, 07/10/2015

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Previously r_johnson wrote:

I was told the engine was a bit special having been built by a Fred Barlow, I read he stamped his heads and I found this (see pic).

I was just returning from paying after filling my Commando up with juice at Morrisson's filling station at Tamworth a few years ago (I live in Tamworth) when a good looking early middle age lady was standing looking at the bike, I asked her if she liked it. She then went on to tell me which model it was and a few anecdotes about Nortons in general to which I said she was very knowledgeable and asked if she was a Norton Owner ? No I don't own one now, she said but I am Fred Barlows daughter and grew up surrounded by these things. Aparently Fred and family lived at Tamworth and ran his business from there,sadly, passing away before I moved there from Doncaster in late 98. Cheers Big Alan Clarke, Shenstone Branch Sec

Submitted by jonathan_newton on Wed, 07/10/2015

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Previously alan_clarke2 wrote:

Previously r_johnson wrote:

I was told the engine was a bit special having been built by a Fred Barlow, I read he stamped his heads and I found this (see pic).

I was just returning from paying after filling my Commando up with juice at Morrisson's filling station at Tamworth a few years ago (I live in Tamworth) when a good looking early middle age lady was standing looking at the bike, I asked her if she liked it. She then went on to tell me which model it was and a few anecdotes about Nortons in general to which I said she was very knowledgeable and asked if she was a Norton Owner ? No I don't own one now, she said but I am Fred Barlows daughter and grew up surrounded by these things. Aparently Fred and family lived at Tamworth and ran his business from there,sadly, passing away before I moved there from Doncaster in late 98. Cheers Big Alan Clarke, Shenstone Branch Sec

JustGoogle "Fred Barlow, BSA" for someinfo....

 


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