Model 7 confusing engine numbers

Hi Paul,

That engine number is circa 1952 but 13 is a strange and extremely rare prefix on a twin enginefor what you have may well be from one of the 200 or so RIGID framedModel 7's (sold as Model 77)despatched to Australia though the only other I've seen is some 9000 lower.

If you can post a picture it would help as numbers often get messed with. If is is genuine it may be worth contacting the records officer and see what this was originally fitted to and whether it was an export machine.

Jim

P.S.

13 was later used on the Model 50 and Model 77was usedfor the600cc single downtube machines of 57/58.

Hi Paul,

The engine number looks genuine to me. The fact it isn't quite straight is also indicitive of factory stamping i.e. done in a hurry, my7 is worse than that! I'm told that these bikes were made 50-52 and export only. The remains I've seen on the Yahoo Model 7 Group(http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/nortonmodel7/) are polychromatic blue, an export only colour.

Jim

Early Model 7 engines were stamped with a prefix D12. Later engines with J12.

This photo shows just 13. very curious.

The NOC archives show that in the early 1950s several model shared the same number. Including the model 77. We know that some Model 77s with 500cc engines were exported in 1952. Well ahead of the better known 600cc bikes much later in this decade.

I wonder if this engine came from one of these. The engine number roughlymatches this period. 13 follows 12. I wonder if someone in the sales office just assumed there was no other bike using 13 at the time.

Has anyone else noticed that the numeral 2 stamped on the side is different from that shop number on the back? This is a little suspicious.

Hi Phil,

It is perfectly normal for the date letter to be missing or wrong. I saw a 55 Model 7 with the frame prefix KJ12; clearly a mistake but 100% factory not some later bodger.I would point out that the factory would have had multiple sets of stamps so it is absolutely possible for there to be slightdifferences in the style but not the size. I've seen quite a few with genuine stamping that has the date letter missing oneither frame and engine.

Jim

Hello well if you like to know were them stamp punches are now there in my workshop , given to my father a long time ago, he knew the Scrap guy who got all what was left at bracebidge street , my father worked around birmingham back then he was a engineer for Greens Engineering Boilers and economizer and they fitted Air Ducting as well, In the tin box there are two set the large number and letter set and a small set of letters and numbers plus dots, dash, star, punches , and forward slash punch , anyone can pick the wrong punch up thinking he as the right punch like the old style 2s and 3s can easily get mixed up, yours ajd

Iagree with you Jim.

I have seen countless Norton engines, frames and gearboxes with the numbers clearly stamped by someone who either had a hangover or had got a bit confused. I have the same problem with remembering and then dialing mobile phone numbers. There was a Roadholder article a few years ago about silly gearbox numbers. One, I recall had the gear position number stampings of 1,2 4 &4. Another had 1,2,4,3.

I also agree that the factory would have had muliple sets of stamps but would have thought the style for each would have been the same. I suppose it is possible that the dodgy '2' was a replacement stamp. But I am still a little suspicious about this.

In recent years, lots of stolen Nortonframes have been put forward for dating in order toget anew age-related registration. Many of these have sported numbers thatwere clearly made using modern stamps. The size and style being noticeably different from the genuine Norton factory stamps of the 50s.

Previously wrote:

Hi Paul,

That engine number is circa 1952 but 13 is a strange and extremely rare prefix on a twin enginefor what you have may well be from one of the 200 or so RIGID framedModel 7's (sold as Model 77)despatched to Australia though the only other I've seen is some 9000 lower.

If you can post a picture it would help as numbers often get messed with. If is is genuine it may be worth contacting the records officer and see what this was originally fitted to and whether it was an export machine.

Jim

P.S.

13 was later used on the Model 50 and Model 77was usedfor the600cc single downtube machines of 57/58.

Hello to all well you are right here with the 1950 to 1952 Model77 all sold to Australia , Rohan B emailed me with the Brochure of the Model 77 a 500cc twin in a ridged Frame not unlike the Model 18 frame or Big 4 Frame and Cycle Parts maybe from both models to use up stock parts , they were advertised as A sturdy Twin For Sidecar use, and its was very capable of reaching speeds of 90mph And it seams that no one as written much about these Motorcycles So Now you know were the 13 stamp mark came from , and thank you for bringing this up ,No one would be any wiser about these machines And they Did not get a mention by Roy Bacon ether or anyone else, they would of looked really smart looking motorcycle in there blue paint work , and chrome tank with painted panels , one for my book , Rare Norton Twins , AS anyone out there anymore information on this Model , I would like to know, so email me at , annajeannette@btinternet.com , And one more thing how did this crank case get to be in the UK and is there any more of the bike out there , we need to save our Heritage , yours Anna J

Previously wrote:

G'day Anna,

I forgot to mention, this crankcase is in ADELAIDE, SOUTH AUSTRALIA, so the suggestion that it was a rigid for the OZ market ties in.

Thanks all for the replies so far.

Paul.

Hello Paul I hope you looking after the Norton heritage Yours Anna J Dixon

FYI - this magazine is available in the UK from 'The Magazineman' (no connection just a satisfied customer - order on-line and usually next day delivery) and is the issue with the Goodwood Vincent on the cover.

http://www.themagazineman.co.uk/images/Old_Bike_Australasia_51.jpg

Graham

Snippet from the NOC Records. Thanks to Chris S.

Last Model 77 (13).

12th Feb 1952 G13 43631 to Australia as with all the others. Making a grand total of 236 exported. Some immediately being re-exported on to NZ.

So Paul's 43623 just slips inside the total as probably one of the last of the batch.