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Help with ES2 please

Submitted by howard_robinson on Sat, 12/04/2014
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Please can any of you helpful members assist with identification and recommendations. A friend has recently acquired an ES2 in a rigid frame (see attached). The engine numbers on the drive side crankcase are 59799 K4. Slightly forward of these on the curved part of the case adjacent to where the front left-hand side engine plate would be it is stamped RA234. The gearbox number is G102 A2459. There must be a frame number somewhere but it is not obvious and we are not sure where to look. Suffice to say there is a lug/bracket on the central down-tube that would probably be for an upright gearbox. Should this be removed or not ? He wishes to keep the laydown box if possible. As you can see some important parts are missing. Front engine plates, toolbox, headlamp and rear brake-plate are all required. All the primary equipment is there, though not shown, with the clutch and chaincases. The footrests, pedals, levers and stands are also there but needing attention. He will also require an exhaust pipe, silencer, seat, rear number plate, cables and electrics but these should be readily available ?? So where to find frame number, ideas about the frame type and recommendations for obtaining any of the missing parts will be very much appreciated. If any one might loan a set of front engine plates any costs will obviously be met. Are the rear brakeplates for rigid frames all the same ? I am sure there will be many more questions once the rebuild starts. I should say that he wishes to ride it not show it.Regards and thanks, Howard Robinson I am also having difficulties attaching more than one images even though the total size is within the total I Meg limit. Any ideas ?

Attachments ES2-01.jpg ES2-05.jpg technical1-sing

Submitted by adam_davis on Sun, 13/04/2014

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Hello Howard, K4 means 1955 ES2. The frame looks like Model 18. The frame number should be on the left hand headstock, that will indicate a more accurate provenance. All the missing parts are discoverable, exceptions being correct mudguards and toolbox, but they might be obtainable from suppliers I don't know about. India?Ebay would be a good starting point. I restored my 1950 ES2 over two years and patience was the key. And a wallet.Looks exciting...Adam

Attachments 1949es2-jpg

Submitted by andy_marks on Sun, 13/04/2014

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Hi Howard

As Adam says, your engine is 1956 ES2. But your frame must be earlier. By 1955 the ES2 was swinging arm, and before that they where plunger frames. It looks like a model 18 frame which was dropped from the range in 1954. The model 18 and ES2 engine where identical as far as I know.

The frame number should be on the left hand side of the front tank mount, it can be very faint so you may need to scrape the paint away carefully. As with the engine number there should be a letter and number prefix. The letter reffers to the year:

A-1946

B-1947

C-1948

and so on.

And the number is the model, 4 is the ES2 and I am pretty sure 3 is the Model 18.

I got an exhaust pipe from Armours, the silencer from Feked, saddles are ready available from several places and the number plates turn up on eBay regularly.

I have the engine back out of my ES2 at the moment, although I want to get it back in in the next day or twoso cant really lend you the plates I could draw round them and send you the drawing if that helps?

Andy

Attachments sam_1135-copy-jpg

Submitted by howard_robinson on Mon, 14/04/2014

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Previously andy_marks wrote:

Hi Howard

As Adam says, your engine is 1956 ES2. But your frame must be earlier. By 1955 the ES2 was swinging arm, and before that they where plunger frames. It looks like a model 18 frame which was dropped from the range in 1954. The model 18 and ES2 engine where identical as far as I know.

The frame number should be on the left hand side of the front tank mount, it can be very faint so you may need to scrape the paint away carefully. As with the engine number there should be a letter and number prefix. The letter reffers to the year:

A-1946

B-1947

C-1948

and so on.

And the number is the model, 4 is the ES2 and I am pretty sure 3 is the Model 18.

I got an exhaust pipe from Armours, the silencer from Feked, saddles are ready available from several places and the number plates turn up on eBay regularly.

I have the engine back out of my ES2 at the moment, although I want to get it back in in the next day or twoso cant really lend you the plates I could draw round them and send you the drawing if that helps?

Andy

Thanks Andy. Yes please draw around them in case we can't get a set. I am visitting another friend tomorrow who thinks that he has a pair. If the engines are the same then the ES2 should fit the plates in a rigid frame - should it not ? Are all the rigid frames likely to have similar front engine plate mountings ? I will know tomorrow what the frame number is once I've removed the top sidecar mount ! Regards, Howard

Submitted by howard_robinson on Tue, 15/04/2014

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So everybody - under several coats of paint the frame number eventually emerged as follows ; 718227 . The first seven is stamped with a smaller stamp than the rest of the numbers - perhaps 75% of size. Would this be normal for rigid frames ? The frame is obviously a full cradle rigid version and the ES2 engine and laydown box seem to fit in it adequately. More thoughts please. Regards, Howard

Submitted by ian_richtsteig on Wed, 16/04/2014

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Previously howard_robinson wrote:

So everybody - under several coats of paint the frame number eventually emerged as follows ; 718227 . The first seven is stamped with a smaller stamp than the rest of the numbers - perhaps 75% of size. Would this be normal for rigid frames ? The frame is obviously a full cradle rigid version and the ES2 engine and laydown box seem to fit in it adequately. More thoughts please. Regards, Howard

Howard,

Number 7 is used to designate a rigid frame Big 4. Are you sure that there is no letter before the 7 to designate the year? A frame number of 18227 should have the letter C to indicate 1948 build year.

regards

Submitted by howard_robinson on Wed, 16/04/2014

Permalink

Previously ian_richtsteig wrote:

Previously howard_robinson wrote:

So everybody - under several coats of paint the frame number eventually emerged as follows ; 718227 . The first seven is stamped with a smaller stamp than the rest of the numbers - perhaps 75% of size. Would this be normal for rigid frames ? The frame is obviously a full cradle rigid version and the ES2 engine and laydown box seem to fit in it adequately. More thoughts please. Regards, Howard

Howard,

Number 7 is used to designate a rigid frame Big 4. Are you sure that there is no letter before the 7 to designate the year? A frame number of 18227 should have the letter C to indicate 1948 build year.

regardsThanks Ian - No sign of any letters before the seven. The seven is quite a bit smaller than the other numbers as I've already indicated. Don't suppose it is part of a letter or the top part of a three rarther than a small seven ? Regards, Howard

 


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