The Guardian 2-part podcast on Stuart Garner

These podcasts inform that Government Officials knew, from very early days, that things were not right. So why did they not act sooner???

The Guardian investigation reveals a relentless ego trip by one individual, assisted by financial contacts with previous, which left a trail of victims in his wake. The victims seem to have included government ministers, a PM, individual pension pots, past employees, suppliers, investors, customers and deposit payers.

Good listening.

Peter 

Perpetuate the scam! Despite various warnings about the dodgy dealings the club seemed to be blindsided by a conman, I and several others had posts deleted and were “spoken to” in our criticisms. Sad but now some of us can move on. I wrote an article for our newsletter about the emperors new clothes in about 2010 about people’s inability to see through the former owner of Norton, sadly many people lost bikes, money and pensions because of him. The U.K. bike press were complicit in his overly long reign as a conman, the politicians are just conmen anyway so nobody should be surprised. In my 40 years in the NOC I have seen plenty of Scams, the Scalbanias spring to mind instantly 

hopefully the once great Norton name can come back…….

It goes without saying that Garner did a tremendous amount of damage to the Norton name, acted in a despicable manner to a large number of people along the way, and caused them great misery and financial woe.

None of that would have happened if he had not taken on the Norton name. If that had been the case, where would the company be now? Still in the history books I think. From what I have read of Kenny Dreer’s valiant attempts to revive the Commando, it was never going to take off commercially. After all, it’s not as if there was a long queue of people to buy the business from him at the time, and I’m pretty sure TVS took no interest back then.

For all its well-publicised faults, the Skinner 961 was at its heart a great design: what TVS have done with it is surely proof.

When a “dead” brand has been brought back to life, the results are to say mixed. What Bloor did with Triumph has been nothing short of miraculous- especially (or maybe because of) being a man with no industry background. The new Enfields are achieving great things, but there was always the backbone of the long-running Bullet production in India behind them. I am less taken with the new BSA Gold Star though, and several of the revivals of lapsed marques from earlier years have been little more than an old badge on a new tank from the Developing World. Would we want Norton to be in that class?

So vilify Garner yes, but give him some small credit too.

(Puts on tin hat for protection....)

hello, Michael

what sort of reaction do you expect with putting on a tin hat,

barry

Hello Barry

I just don't want members to think I'm some sort of fanboy or apologist for the man. I met him 2 or 3 times at the NEC shows, even now not quite sure what to make of him. He did come across as having a big affection for Nortons though, told me his dad used to take him to watch the rotaries racing.

I still get the impression that he was a genuine enthusiast whose finances ran away with him.  Like many entrepreneurs, he was a gambler.  Gamblers who win become successful, frequently by chance rather than real ability.  Those who fail become buried in debt, but always hope that the next bet will pay for all.

Why did the business fail?  Surely the quick answer is "modern regulations".  It costs vast resources to keep IC engines within the emissions regulation limits, because the limits increasingly demand the near-impossible. 

All the technical issues reported in the early days related to engine management, including engine breathing.  If firms as large as VW felt the need to bend the rules to get through, what chance does a small new manufacturer have?

He won't be the last man who borrows with increasing desperation to try to get out of the pit he has found himself in.  He has to be prosecuted as a warning to others, but whether he is a deliberate Sinner is perhaps harder to prove.  However, the Authorities are keen to make banking as nearly impossible for the majority of ordinary citizens just in case some of us might have acquired money illegally.  It's a pity that they don't prevent major fraud that went on for years.  All of us who followed the saga knew that it was all going horribly wrong long before it all came to the end.

Like many bankrupts, he left a potentially valuable legacy.  But other people paid for it and ultimately received no benefit.

… and to end on a positive note , I’ve ended up with a great motorcycle in the shape of a Mk 1 961 Sport that has been almost entirely troublefree.

As a footnote have also been reimbursed some of my 500 quid deposit on the 4 cyl road burner that never happened from the Receivers with expectation of a further and probably final payout. Never expected even a penny back.

Good news James! There was a large selection of 961 at the Ardingly summer show, with happy owners...including one who sold his a few years ago and now bought it back again!  We mustn't talk down their evident merits just because some had problems.

From Michael Coare:

"If firms as large as VW felt the need to bend the rules to get through, what chance does a small new manufacturer have?"

A correction required here. VW cheated to gain a competitive advantage over other manufacturers,  not that they couldn't comply with the rules. 

They switched off emission control systems that gave them better MPG than their competitors in the real world (ie non lab tests).

I should add that I spent a large number of years developing and calibrating engines for a very large vehicle manufacturer so am quite up on what is required to be compliant.

Bike emissions tests from those times we're relatively easy to pass - again no other manufacturers were struggling. The elephant in the room was that the Garner era Norton had either no money to pay suppliers and/or Calibration Engineers who knew how to do the job, or suppliers of things like injectors,  sensors, PCM's etc weren't really interested in supplying microscopic quantities of parts to Norton. Either way, they simply couldn't complete the task properly.

That is without going into the bike to bike variability, ie. a calibration worked on one bike  but the next one ran like a pig.

To me, Mr Garner gained a (very much) prototype engine from Kenny Dreer and with minimal  further development started selling bikes to the public, and the downward spiral started.

Am truly glad that TVS have got things mostly sorted now.

...that was David Cooper!

But thanks for your obviously well-qualified comments George.