Re my 1951 ES 2 "laydown" gearbox; I use Hypoid gear oil, SAE85W90 in the gearboxes of all my vintage bikes which seems to do the trick nicely.
but...searching through all of my 1940s and 50s manuals and exploded parts diagrams has failed to show me a specific filler hole and drain plug on the gearbox.
Filler Plug: Last weekend at the Paris Vintage bike show (near Toronto) I chatted with an ES 2 owner who tops up his gearbox through the clutch lever adjust plate access hole,,,which I think wrong: it could allow one to put too much oil in the gear box, since that access plate is well above what I believe is the correct fill hole.
I'm convinced that the filler plug is the square headed (not hexigonal) bolt roughly below the clutch cable adjust point...tucked in under and almost out of sight at the rear left lower corner of the gear box.
Drain plug: I see what I think is the drain plug; dead center just aft of the lowest part in the bottom of the gearbox case, facing back towards the rear wheel slightly, Can't see anything else that might be the plug.
Am I correct on these two items; the filler and drain plug.?
things are futher complicated by the fact that the soft brass plug is badly rounded off. So for my first few rides on the bike I syringed the oil out from the filler hole and replaced with fresh. The correct amount of Oil required by the owners' manual fit nicely which seems to confirm that this is indeed the filler hole.
All that said I've got to drain it properly as there must be sludge in the bottom. My mechanic is going to help me sort this; get it up on a stand to get a proper look at it. he assures me he can get the drain plug out safely. He tells me (without seeing it) that if it is brass, then that it must be the drain plug.
So...can anybody with a laydown gearbox confirm that I have properly identified the filler and drain plugs please ?
Gratefully yours, Grant MacNeill, Toronto
OK Grant, you have located…
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Hi Grant Paul is spot on,…
Hi Grant
Paul is spot on, the square headed bolt is for the level. Put oil in the inspection hole until it is just starting to dribble out the lever level plug. I found that it takes a while for the oil to flow from the outer cover into the main box and fill up to the required level. Put a bit in, then leave it for a few minutes, then put a bit more in and repeat until you come back to find its up to the level plug.
And as for brass into aluminium, I'd agree with that too, unless the brass is plated...
Andy
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Thanks Paul and Andy for t…
Thanks Paul and Andy for taking the time to reply. This NOC question forum is a huge bonus. I've used the vintage BMW one for years...similar layout...and it is VERY helpful. For these forums to work we need guys like you who take the time to give thoughtful answers.
Well done !
it makes sense that you put the oil in through the clutch worm inspection hole...I had been injecting it through the overflow plug and carefully measured a 1/2 pint...obviously easier to just fill it from the inspection hole, kick it over a few times and give it a while to settle. then add more slowly until it overflows anout the level plug
once I sort out that "rounded off" drain plug I'll do the job properly.
One "expert" told me that brass drain plugs were used because of the different rates of expansion...so brass would never vibrate out and running temperatures. Makes for a good story. I've added a steel drain plug to my huge list of parts to order from the NOC.
Grant
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Brass into aluminium shoul…
Brass into aluminium shouldn't be a problem in a gearbox. The thread is lubricated by gearbox oil every time the drain plug is removed and replaced and of course most people do change their gearbox oil once in a while. I wonder when I last changed mine? Hmm.
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The square headed bolt is…
The square headed bolt is the level plug. Fill the box by removing the clutch worm cover engraved with 'Norton'. Drain plug is at the bottom of the gearbox shell casting.
Hypoid 85W90 is fine.
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Due to a problem, when I t…
Due to a problem, when I took the outer cover off my 1955 19S laydown box, (Back in 1975) I found it packed with grease instead of containing oil.
But today you can buy grease that goes solid when cold and turns to liquid oil like quality when cold. This will be going in my Dolls head when the end cover comes off. Currently my dolls head uses EP 140 but all my other boxes use Castrol EP90.
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Previously charles_bovingt…
Previously charles_bovington wrote:
The square headed bolt is the level plug. Fill the box by removing the clutch worm cover engraved with 'Norton'. Drain plug is at the bottom of the gearbox shell casting.
Hypoid 85W90 is fine.
Thanks Charles...I figured out that the clutch worm adjust cover plate was the only place to fill from and the square headed plug started to over flow when I got to the correct quantity. Changed oil twice now so everything is working as it should be...now it is on to deal with the next problem !
Grant in Toronto
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OK Grant, you have located the drain plug correctly. The box holds 1/2 pint of oil, so if you drain it, simply put in that quantity I.E., half pint, no need to look for a level hole!
The square headed plug at the rear of the kick starter is the level plug, to only be used when topping up, as you obviously won't know how much oil is needed ...And, reading from the Norton maintenance book re topping up fluids; " .....and should be replenished through the clutch worm inspection hole until oil begins to drip from the level hole after removing the square headed plug.situated to the rear of and on the same level as the kick starter crank shaft."
I suppose I might get jumped on by saying this, but?
....brass into aluminium is generally not a good idea, better to use a steel plug into aluminium to avoid possible seizing.
Paul