DVLA

This is political, so turn away you pro Ethanol moaners.

You may notice that the UK government is giving away huge amounts of money all over the place and have introduced stealth taxes to claw some back. plastic bag tax = 1p VAT and 9.5% Insurance premium hike from 6%. Add to that there is an increase in speed cameras at £100 a go.

A part of the Green BS means that now very many vehicle owners pay little or no VED. They have to make it up somehow so now they are challenging the historic concession.

As you know, the local DVLA offices have been closed. Swansea no longer re-issue MOT certificates with the registration number on as another cut, where tested under a chassisnumber. My 99 was finished in early August but I can't tax it because they didn't associate the MOT with the V5. Seems impossible to get through to these people. I may have to take the machine for another MOT.

£1.5 Trillion National debt, they are desperate for your cash. I wonder if overseas riders are having issues with stealth taxes?

I've been following this saga and as far as I can tell, it comes down to a correct interpretation of long-standing rules rather than a Government poilicy change. Firstly it relates to the 'Age-related' concession and not to the 'Historic' category and has become a particular problem since the tightening of the Single Vehicle Test Approval for cars. Vehicles registered prior to the age-related system will not be affected, subject to any major changes of component having been notified, as they always should have been. The situation is less clear for those registered since.

It has come to a head due to a disagreement between two classic car clubs. One owners club has been authenticating beutifully built new replicas as 'Historic' and assisting in the provision of an age related number and avoidance of current single vehicle approval tests (these are much simpler for motorcycles but a true replica of a vintage car can in no way pass the SV car test)....Look up Pur-Sang Bugatti to see just how good these replicas are - but they're not historic and legally can't be registered for the road as new vehicles.

The car world has also been troubled by such things as shortened Range Rover chassis appearing under Series 1 Land Rovers and all manner of fiddling to gain road tax concessions for Minis built as late as 2000.

In my opinion, if they get round to motorcycles then those who will need to watch out will be perhaps those with trikes registered as 1960s Beetles and such machines as those occasionally featured in the magazines - WD16H engines in home-made flat tanker frames with an identity lifted from a donor bike. It has for some time been impossible to register newly built Tritons but there is no suggestion that those built prior to current regulations will have problems. They have become historic as mongrels.

We're really incredibly fortunate to have the possibility to register vehicles that meet only obsolete standards and one of the balances here is that we have to accept that it has been allowed in order to preserve historic vehicles, not as a way of avoiding type approval on bitsas with perhaps one or two old parts.

I know that the NOCs Machine Verification Officers are following things very closely and I wouldn't expect that machines which have been certified by them would have much to fear (but that is a personal opinion of course).

Hi all,

The whole DVLA thing is the work of a complete idiot. The issue is that with pre war cars especially the body was often not made by the factory and some cars were rebodied several times either to keep up withthe neighboursor because it was beyond repair.

I know of a couple of cases where the idiots are trying to issue a Q plate because the body has been changed. Sorry but the body is a separate part the clue being that the car has a CHASSIS number.

As for not going back and checking vehicles already registered... they should be! I've seen afaked worksTT bike allowed to be registered so all should be checked andall restamped frames should be given Q plates.

Jim

Jim

I used to work for DVLA, and actually their policy and the logic is sensible, yes you can rebody a car, or reframe a bike and so long as you use all the original running gear, engine etc then there is no problem.

Without any rules there would be little to stop people from simply swapping number plates which on the whole would not be a good idea! If a vehicle has a seperate body and chassis then the same principle applies, it's the chassis and its number that matters.

To be honest of all the hundreds of cars I inspected for cherished transfers, imports, rebuilds or eastern block ex military registrations I think I can remember all of the ones where the chassis/vin number didn't match, and they were all stolen!

The trick as ever is do the research on your vehicle, keep records and photos of the work in progress including all the stuff you've taken off and are going to throw away, and providing you have the required points you'll keep the number or get an age related one.

But in most cases all the inspector is looking for is matching engine and frame/ vin numbers. If they don't be prepared to answer the inevitable questions! It ain't rocket science.

dan

Richard, although I stand by my comments, I entirely accept what you say.

I often wonder how these machines go on with new featherbed frames for example. Does that make them new or old? Do VW use their software to pass the latest emission tests and can that be done with a carburratedengine?

I wonder how the new heritageMG bodies will be viewed, folks must be worried. .A case not of where the line is drawn but who is drawing the line and I'll bet it's not enthusiasts!

At the end of the day, Q plates mean full VED for the class and higher insurance meaning a higher insurance tax premium . I can't believe that a cash cow is not the driving force for this.

Hi Dan,

When you worked for them the rules may have been logical butnow they consider a body change on a pre war carto be major enough to require a Q plate! Not even the club involved can make them see sense. Yet they allow duds to be registered without putting up a fight.

Jim

Neil, I can't get away from the idea that past abuses are the problem. Heritage bodyshells are OK but a secondhand shell isn't. As I understand it, a new Featherbed is OK but building a special around a used frame no longer is.

THe FBHVC and other clubs have been consulted but of course they don't all follow the same line...Certainly with the more expensive vehicles, there are those who jealously guard their originals with provenance and resent new replicas.

This in-fighting has largely been what brought all this to light (In the report originally quoted, the Bugatti Club made reference to a two-year discussion with DVLA. It hasn't suddenly happened).

How would we feel if a camshaft Norton were to be dismantled and the engine, gearbox, frame and forks (all numbered on Nortons) be used to build-up four bikes completed with replica components (they're available). Would it be correct to have all four registered as 'Historic Vehicles' on zero VED ?

I suppose there are those who would find that it doesn't matter and that the system is there to be beaten. Personally it rather conflicts with my sense of fair-play.

Neil what's the issue with new tritons? Depends what you mean by new of course but if they are simply a triumph engine in a registered f bed frame their shouldn't be a problem?

This says it all really:

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/reconstructed-classic-vehicles

Dan