Carb needle for 99 !!

For those who wanted to continue with this thread, The 99 is still in bits. Waiting for a new crank seal .The 650 pistons give the same CR as the 99 ones and the air filter is no restriction and really just stops rocks.I have dabbled with magnetic dissy trigger which just would not run for me,So i'm back to points ,The plugs are now NGK BPR5 type as i have non resistor leads and caps. Timing cover off to change back to 3 start gears to give the dissy an easier time ,New battery to ensure good sparks.Struggling to remove silicone sealant from primary case ,its Probably Dow Corning and is ignoring the usual methods and products.Hoping the soft plugs will alow me to ride the thing while still looking for the answer.The multi-point plugs still failed ,just took longer.A load of new carb bits on order ,not that i can see anything wrong with the existing,and they do measure up.If the problem persists after fittng new parts I'm going to open up the air bleed holes in the needle jet. and make a 3 and a quarter slide.

Have you tryed out Bosch W7DTC sparkplugs there alot better than NGK offerings, better spark and there self shelding, they run cleaner ,with unleaded fuels have fun yours anna j

For those who wanted to continue with this thread, The 99 is still in bits. Waiting for a new crank seal .The 650 pistons give the same CR as the 99 ones and the air filter is no restriction and really just stops rocks.I have dabbled with magnetic dissy trigger which just would not run for me,So i'm back to points ,The plugs are now NGK BPR5 type as i have non resistor leads and caps. Timing cover off to change back to 3 start gears to give the dissy an easier time ,New battery to ensure good sparks.Struggling to remove silicone sealant from primary case ,its Probably Dow Corning and is ignoring the usual methods and products.Hoping the soft plugs will alow me to ride the thing while still looking for the answer.The multi-point plugs still failed ,just took longer.A load of new carb bits on order ,not that i can see anything wrong with the existing,and they do measure up.If the problem persists after fittng new parts I'm going to open up the air bleed holes in the needle jet. and make a 3 and a quarter slide.

on the noches, and a 25 pilot jet, a 240 main jet or you can go down to a 230 main jet, if she runs too rich, yours anna j

Anna's advice may well be correct, but the Norton Manual specifies a No 3 cutaway for the 99 and a 250 main jet. The 240 main jet, 31/2 cutaway combination is for the 88 dominator. I assume that you have a 1 1/16'' type 376 monobloc carb.. the 106 needle and 25 Pilot jet are correct. Good luck.

I have a 3 1/2 slide to try and new needle and jet ,just in case someone has palmed me off with duff stuff. I'm banking it being the float needle seating which is the old nylon type with nylon float,although when not running the fuel level is spot on.The very rich running appears to be off the pilot and at small to medium throttle positions , although even when being belted 2 up on the IOM it still fouled the plugswith matt black soot ,currently the needle is in the weakest position.When i get it to run a bit cleaner and reliable I will run it round to a mate with a dyno and exhaust analyser and get readings at all throttle positions. After that I will play around with different plugs to find ones that don't glaze with the fuel additives that appear to cause problems for some. If you think about it , vitually everything now is designed to run weak.

Hello the bigger the cutway side number the leaner it shound run , but you

get rich runnig with this ethanol petrol, and you may be better of with Bosch W7DTC spark plugs as there made of Ethanol petrol you find it will start better and run better , these are the plugs I been usiing for the past 4 years now, I find the really good, and they give less trouble too, as I have a big box full of dead NGK plugs, that been nothing but trouble, most have cracked puorsline inside the plug, but Bosch have not done this there a better spark plug, I have tryed and tested all makes of plugs, if your still not shure give Tim Green a call, www.greensparkplugs.co.uk

It really does appear to be the carb flooding once you are on the move. That would explain the rich running at low throttle openings but cleaner running at higher throttle openings. I would be very suspicious of the carb float needle and the fuel level in the float chamber. Concentric or monobloc?

Use BP Ultimate with NO Ethanol if you are not living in the South West of England.

Nothing wrong with Champion N5's in the 88, 99. model 50 and ES2. Yet to have one fail. Ethanol will melt the nylon stuff so don't use the old carb bits that can be affected if you intend using dodgy fuel.

Hi Robert, unlike my 99DL which is very non-standard. Your problem couldn't possibly be the choke could it? If I remember, could well be wrong, the DL choke is operated by a leversticking out of the enclosure and not the usual lever on the bars. I suddenly remembered a friend with an 850 Commando which exhibited all your symptoms. Turns out his choke was fully on despite being apparently off.

Previously robert_tuck wrote:

I never buy ethanol fuel by choice only if stuck and try to drain it out and use on the car . The DL 's use a standard choke but have a lever to work the tickler thro the side panel. I last saw one of these levers back in the 1960's ,so no tickling is possible. If a little flooding were needed I would in the past just lean the bike over to the right to raise the fuel level.Normally start with full choke and 1 to 2 kicks then choke off. If anyone has a tickler lever for me to copy ,would be very gratefull.Getting too old to pick up 450 lbs.

Try NOC spares fro a tickler

Previously neil_wyatt wrote:

Use BP Ultimate with NO Ethanol if you are not living in the South West of England.

Nothing wrong with Champion N5's in the 88, 99. model 50 and ES2. Yet to have one fail. Ethanol will melt the nylon stuff so don't use the old carb bits that can be affected if you intend using dodgy fuel.

Nothing wrong with Champion N5 , But these spark plugs just happens to not like Ethanol fuels, than much , as I have found outthe hard way, but Bosch W7DTC runs really well on ethanol fuelsAs I have said before you have to try them to find out in your own wayBut My Norton 650 as been running fine on them for the past 4 year now, I have tryed out N5C and NGK B6ES for a single carburettor,has thats what is fitted to my 650 , has I see no point in running with twin Carburettors in our days , Were can you use twin carbs on the A and B roadsof to day, when you have speed cams and speed bumps 20mph 30 mph and 40mph speed zones, and if your on the M25 your lucky if you get to 4mph in the fast line, So what the point anymore to have twin carbs, getting one to work right is an achevement , yours Anna J

Hi Gordon, My 99dl is standard appart from a breather to the tank,12v electrics ,650 pistons ,air filter and 6 start gears. It even has the orriginal and rare control levers that i have not seen on any other Norton.These have different pivot centers for clutch and brake.Who would have guessed that?.

Hello why do you want six start gearing for the oil pump, the 650 and 750 Atlas worked quet well on 3 start gearing for the oil pump, so if it had 3 start gearing there is no need to change it, and 650 piston are a higher compression to the model DL(99) so you will have to re-jet for this, Yours Anna J

One further thought for over-rich running. It is possible that the tickler is protruding too far into the float chamber and stopping the float needle from seating fully. Worth a check.

Yet another thought. If a Monobloc is used, is a fibre washer fitted between the carb body and float needle housing? Contemporary exploded pictures show no washer fitted and I seem to recall when working in a bike dealership in the late sixties coming across a similar problem. This would raise the float level.

The very latest pictures show a fibre washer.

The other very common problem was the pilot jet not being fully seated before the cap nut was fitted.

Regards Colin

Previously robert_tuck wrote:

Hi Anna, The 650 pistons which are nominally 9 to 1 work out to be 8.25 in a 600 , because of the stroke ,so this is not really a change apart from the shorter skirt and a possible weight change.they run ok if a little noisy when cold.When i get the crank ground I will also get it balanced.When I last rebuilt the motor it had suffered from a seizure on the drive side and dry head . As I had also had the same problem with an 88 of the same year I thought more oil was needed.The crank was also ready for a regrind but at that time My trust in others workmanship was NIL so I just hoped that more oil would suffice!. Well it has for about 20 years of light use. But I'm sure you are right ,3 start should be enough if all else correct. Too much oil in the timing area is not good for the dissy.Once I resolve the rich running which is messing up the motor I will try the multipoint plugs again.

Hello now for give me for going of topic here but whats the noise sound like too you, heavy dull thudding noise or light tapping noise, !! yours Anna J

Anna, my point was to use Champion N5 plugs N5C if you like and BP Ultimate petrol. Why would you want to use stuff that you know can cause damage, unless you had no choice?

Hi Anna, Its cold Piston slap. I have not heard a quiet 99 or 650. My 88 had a very quiet motor till it siezed at 95 mph .It was never the same after that!. The short skirts don't help. Tickover mixture is spot on as set up with a colourtune plug,Not going to have time for bikes for a while ,now caring for 100 year old dad and Grandaughter with double leg bone fracture will need some time.

well you can colour tune without any colour tune kit, just take the exhaust pipes off and tune the engine from the colour of the exhaust flames your looking for a nice blue flame that comes to a point you get this at revs but your nabour may not be too pleased about the noise , and my engine quiet runnig but thats down to silencer thats on it, they have double set of baffles inside And siezing engiine is all down to oil not getting round the oilways and or sticking presser release valve , if there is a sticking release valve you do not get the right amount of oil returning from the sump so then the oil pump is only pumping air, and not oil its a common fault with Norton twins, Owners stip there engine and clean what they can see and never bother with the small oilways there some small oilways come from the inlet valve side and some in the ball ends of the rocker arm that fit too the push rod cups, then you have some to feed these via the rocker oil feed there are oil way hole in the spindel ends that line up with the oilways in the cylinder head, then there is a drain oilway down the back of the cylinder head too meet up with a oilway runs down the back of the barrels this then run into the timing case but there is a rigth angle bend in the right hand side crankcase this is where it gets blocked up so oil cannot drain also there is oilways in the large end connecting rods to drain of oil if there is littel oil getting back too the oil pump then the pump cannot do its job of put oil back round the engine resulting in a sezure and a lot of oil is slash feed to the cam shaft and main bearings so its all down to clean oil ways not so much what oil you put in the bike, but 20/50 is the best , as you need thin oil to get round a cold engine , a 40SAE or a 50SAE has a hard time getting round a COLD engine , So the engine is runnig dry for near on a minut before the oil get warmed up, this is where the damage occurs hope this is food for thought ,yours anna j

Previously robert_tuck wrote:

Hi I'm new to posting, but have just experienced similar problems with an 88 Dominator. The problems of plugs fouling and the bike not picking-up off a closed trotlle pluss the total sooting -up of plugs boiled down to 3 seperate issues. First a leaking head gasket. This was sorted by using a graphite gasket. Also I had the misfortune of two sequential duff condensers. Once these issues were dealt with, it left only the carb- (an old Monobloc) built up out of bits, but with a new needle and needle jet. The bike would tick over and rev (whilst parked) but always baulked when moving off tickover under load. Also, it would run out of puff at about 55-60 mph. The problems went away when a new 626 Concentric was fitted. For the 88, I used a 160 main jet with a 3 1/2 slide, the needle in the lowest groove. I only cured the running today and it was joy to run it up to 75mph without any trouble. I hope this helps.

For those who wanted to continue with this thread, The 99 is still in bits. Waiting for a new crank seal .The 650 pistons give the same CR as the 99 ones and the air filter is no restriction and really just stops rocks.I have dabbled with magnetic dissy trigger which just would not run for me,So i'm back to points ,The plugs are now NGK BPR5 type as i have non resistor leads and caps. Timing cover off to change back to 3 start gears to give the dissy an easier time ,New battery to ensure good sparks.Struggling to remove silicone sealant from primary case ,its Probably Dow Corning and is ignoring the usual methods and products.Hoping the soft plugs will alow me to ride the thing while still looking for the answer.The multi-point plugs still failed ,just took longer.A load of new carb bits on order ,not that i can see anything wrong with the existing,and they do measure up.If the problem persists after fittng new parts I'm going to open up the air bleed holes in the needle jet. and make a 3 and a quarter slide.

Glad to hear all is well now, Robert. Do let us know any issues. Hopefully none!

Previously robert_tuck wrote:

Hi I'm new to posting, but have just experienced similar problems with an 88 Dominator. The problems of plugs fouling and the bike not picking-up off a closed trotlle pluss the total sooting -up of plugs boiled down to 3 seperate issues. First a leaking head gasket. This was sorted by using a graphite gasket. Also I had the misfortune of two sequential duff condensers. Once these issues were dealt with, it left only the carb- (an old Monobloc) built up out of bits, but with a new needle and needle jet. The bike would tick over and rev (whilst parked) but always baulked when moving off tickover under load. Also, it would run out of puff at about 55-60 mph. The problems went away when a new 626 Concentric was fitted. For the 88, I used a 160 main jet with a 3 1/2 slide, the needle in the lowest groove. I only cured the running today and it was joy to run it up to 75mph without any trouble. I hope this helps.

For those who wanted to continue with this thread, The 99 is still in bits. Waiting for a new crank seal .The 650 pistons give the same CR as the 99 ones and the air filter is no restriction and really just stops rocks.I have dabbled with magnetic dissy trigger which just would not run for me,So i'm back to points ,The plugs are now NGK BPR5 type as i have non resistor leads and caps. Timing cover off to change back to 3 start gears to give the dissy an easier time ,New battery to ensure good sparks.Struggling to remove silicone sealant from primary case ,its Probably Dow Corning and is ignoring the usual methods and products.Hoping the soft plugs will alow me to ride the thing while still looking for the answer.The multi-point plugs still failed ,just took longer.A load of new carb bits on order ,not that i can see anything wrong with the existing,and they do measure up.If the problem persists after fittng new parts I'm going to open up the air bleed holes in the needle jet. and make a 3 and a quarter slide.

Have you not tryed out Bosch W7DTC yet there about the same has Champion N5 heat range but there a lot better than NKG or Champion for when your running on Ethnol petrol E5or E10 with a cap full of Castrol GP50 in the tank just to give the valves a bit of oil and a nice smell too !