Alton electric start kit

Especially for your Commando, you could consider a pair of available Mk3 cases (Blanking off the gear change cross over) with a Mk3 alternator.

With an uprated starter motor etc your bike might look like a Mk 3 with a right foot gear change. PS: If kicking over after being laid up for a week or more, try draining the sump first. Kicking over is much easier and usually starts first or second time on mine.

The mk3 crankshaft is longer to take the starter gear (and the mk3 crankcases are wider as the flywheel is different) plus the inner primary case has a 4 hole fixing to the crankcase not 3 so I reckon the Alton klit is the best route - Alan

Previously peter_stowe wrote:

As my body weakens with age I find myself considering fitting one of these kits.

It will be fitted to a chain primary drive, so I am interested to hear how people have got on with the kit.

I am not bothered by the cost, which I think is reasonable considering what is included in the kit, and the development work.

But are they reliable, durable and trouble free?

Previously peter_stowe wrote:

As my body weakens with age I find myself considering fitting one of these kits.

It will be fitted to a chain primary drive, so I am interested to hear how people have got on with the kit.

I am not bothered by the cost, which I think is reasonable considering what is included in the kit, and the development work.

But are they reliable, durable and trouble free?

because the 3 mounting screws on my engine made the inner case fit very close to the Z plate and iso assembly i had to grind off a little of the Zplate on inner face of large rad an cut little from the large rad on cover that covers gearbox sprocket but this cannot be seen an it is i think down to the luck of the draw with the orginal Norton tollerances if you where to have this problem.

I notice there is only one dowel to locate the outer cover so it moves a little so i drilled and tapped a small 6mm grub screw into the seal groove near the Z plate refitted the cover and hit that area with rubber mallet so as to mark where screw was to drill small blind hole in it (its now better fit than when Norton did it) there are no marks for timing so i set engine to 31 degrees (for boyer) an made tiny dot with out cover on to line up with 31 degree timing mark on cover.

only other problems where due to fit belt drive but these where just matter of spacers to aline starter shaft sprocket and sprag clutch sprocket and again Norton tollerances being what they are you may need to shim or shorten supplied spacer even if you keep chain drive. (fit sprag an starter shaft an there is a lug between them you an use as datum for measuring off)

all in all i am happy yes its not cheap but it is well made an any fitting problems can be as i have said due to wide differances in standard parts and are not difficult to over come. I got my kit from Hawkshaw who where very helpfull an polite (unlike some other suppliers) and my advice would be to anyone to get one. My bike kicks up easily an normaly first time but due to side slope of my drive an camber of road you are in constant fear of loosing ballance an giving your neighbours something to laugh about but now starting is fear free push of a button you can get it out an ride the thing and after all that is what its for.

Thank you Alan for this info with regard to the longer Mk 3 shaft, I didn't think of that.

Peter

I have the Alton belt drive kit and am very happy with it. I have the Alton single phase alternator and a Shorai 18Ah Li-ion battery. I run daytime dipped beam all the time (55W) and have no problem at all. All you need to do is buy a single phase rectifier/regulator module e.g. AREGONE from P Goff. The Shorai is pricey to buy but I now have room to mount the Alton solenoid and a Scottoiler within the battery compartment.

David

Previously peter_stowe wrote:

As my body weakens with age I find myself considering fitting one of these kits.

It will be fitted to a chain primary drive, so I am interested to hear how people have got on with the kit.

I am not bothered by the cost, which I think is reasonable considering what is included in the kit, and the development work.

But are they reliable, durable and trouble free?

I have had the electric start kit for nearly a year and have done 2,000 miles since fitting it and it has worked perfectly. As for fitting, I fitted it myself but the problems I found when fitting it were that if you were also fitting a new primary chain (as I was) the supportr pillar in the Alton supplied chaincase fouled the teeth on the clutch basket. Alton have now modified the supplied chaincase to prevent this so there are now possibly two types of chaincase available, ie. theearlier version with support pillar and the later version with no support pillar. If you were to be supplied with an earlier version chaincase, you may need to remove some material from the pillar to allow the primary chain and clutch basket enough tolerance to fit, which I found easy to do. The second issue I had was if you havethe later type stronger crankcases, you may need to remove a small amount of material from the back of the chaincase to avoid fouling your crankcases. Thirdly, as mentioned by another respondee, there is no timing mark as Alton do not see any necessity in putting one on!and only one dowel to locate the case coverBy no means let these small issues put you off from buying one - it's expensive but in my opinion a brilliant bit of kit and I've not used my kickstart once since fitting it. I purchased my kit from Andover Norton who, I'm led to believe,now have only later style chaincases so there would be no pillar issue.

Hello Mark,

I am a french member.

Your battery 20 ah it is the sames dimensions that the originale and which are the rÃ?fÃ?rences ?

Thank you

Previously francis_vidril wrote:

Hello Mark,

I am a french member.

Your battery 20 ah it is the sames dimensions that the originale and which are the rÃ?fÃ?rences ?

Thank you

yes it is larger than standard size but it does fit on the battery tray ok tho it is held with a long thin cabble tie around the bottom and another going over the top of it both of witch pass through the two holes the standard battery straps used and once tight with the battery sitting on standard rubber strips it will no move about in fact you can shake it so hard the bike may fall over.

it is a Lucas glass mat type gell battery TYTX20BS which i got off ebay for £55 delivered to my door. it is the type where the acid comes seperate in a special bottle which you simply place on top of the battery and press down to brake the seal then acid flows into battery and cemicals in battery turn it into a gel then you place cover on an it is then sealed no venting gas or acid. I got this type because it is far cheaper than the SHORAI or BALLISTIC lithiun ion types an they have a set life from when they are made and their cemicals are mixed together like any other dry battery where as with this one you put the acid in an so you know its not being sitting on a shelf for half its life.

its measures 175mm long 87mm wide 155mm tall depending on which advert you read is listed as a 20ah or 18ah with 210amps cold cranking power (this is what mater most as its power to turn starter motor) it is heavy but so am i an above it (between it an main frame tube) sits the ekit solanoid (just cabble tied to frame) there is a small horn above air filter a 6 blade type fuse box where regulater would be and oil pipes wiring etc. also i shortern my battery tray by 10mm by cutting both ends off then rewelding them on to give more clearance to airfilter (standard steel type) an mudguard but it al fits in and side pannel with tools in toolbox part fits as it should to.

if your bike is more standard than mine it should fit even easier i made up a cardboard box to the above sizes to test the fit before i bought one try that if you are unsure. It can turn the starter over for 15 seconds at least 12 times one after another with spark plugs in. it can do it more than that but i stopped because i was more worried of the moter than the battery by then. Then i contected back up the 30 year old Boyer (type that does not like low voltage) an engine started straight away no problem. When it is time for a new battery i shall replace this with another of same type the lithium types are smaller (but this fits) and far lighter (i need to loose more wieght than the bike anyway) but at the moment still cost to much (i dont spare cash either my bike has cost so much i dont count or thick about it that way i sleep at night ) but its the fact that when lithium type go flat they stop giving any power out so you cant even kick bike up that stopped me from gettting one in the end.

get an ekit and a LYTX20BS and start with confidence so you will ride your bike more is my advice to anybody Karl

Thank you very much,Karl,for your very complete answer.

Regards,Francis

Hi I dont wish to put you off having one of the Alton starters, but I had one fitted in May 2012 to my 750 Norton Commando and it has broken down now for the third time. First time a 10mm spindle came out of place and was loose in the primary case,a product recall was issued by Alton as this had happened to a bike in USA but the company who fitted it to my bike failed to act! Second time welds failed on the sprag clutch. Third time all 3 inner primary bolts came out and were loose inside the primary case there is aluminium and steel swarf inside the primary cover so I have yet to find out what other problems have been caused by this last failure. I only had the Alton starter fitted as being a small female with dodgy knees kick starting was a problem, I have hardly been out on the bike in the last 18months due to these problems. A product I sincerely wish I had never entertained, Professionally fitted by a company who are proving a problem over the matter of repair!

Hi Caroline,

Sorry to hear of your experience. Crap service from some dealers is a common story. Hope you get it resolved satisfactorily. For the benefit of others be sure to let us know of the outcome, who they are and whether you would recommend them or not,

Simon.

I also have had some problems with my Alton starter which I fitted myself to my 850 with a primary chain drive. Bought it from Hawkshaws and like Karl Ifound them pleasant to deal with, as are Alton.

Fitting was not difficult except for finding space for the larger battery (a 'Platinum' AGM type from BOM Batteries) together with the solenoid, Pazon Smartfire box and Boyer 3-phase Powerbox all in the space designed for a standard battery. Also I found after fitting the system the crankshaft would only turn a few degrees; this was caused by the 3 fixing screws which hold the new inner chaincase being about 1/8" too long, so out came the hacksaw. I think that some crankcases are thinner than others and require shorter screws. Because there is no locking tab system for this fixing as Norton used, I used threadlock on these screws and have had no problems. Although not suggested by Alton, surely this is an obvious precaution to take, but perhaps not done by Caroline's fitter(?). The dowel arrangements were a little odd and I made my own offset dowel out of a stainless steel bolt. I also made a timing mark on the rotor for future use.

Starter worked well at first but then when out one day the alternator charge dropped to a very low level but got me home OK with the headlight turned off. Did some tests which indicated a fault with the stator, sent details direct to Alton who sent me a new one together with a new rotor 'just to be on the safe side'. Fitted it , but starter would not work. Started with kickstart and at least alternator seemed OK. More testing and emails and Alton sent new starter motor (which can easily be fitted without removing other parts). Fitted and all now working, just waiting for a decent day for a good test ride. When I pulled the original starter motor apart it had water in it and there was a lot of corrosion, brushes stuck etc.. I don't ride in wet weather these days and had only given it one 'bucket and sponge' wash in the short time since I fitted the starter. Alton tell me that they have only had one similar instance of this happening. I am going to cover the starter with some plastic sheeting when washing the bike in future.

Despite these problems, and in the hope and expectation (!) that all will be well in the future, I do not regret getting the system. I cannot kickstart the engine unless it is on it's centre stand and worry about engine cutting out at traffic lights, railway crossings etc. and therefore hold engine at a fast tickover. It then can get overheated and even more likely to stall. Now I can leave it at a steady tickover, or at a level crossing sometimes turn it off, knowing that I can resart at the touch of a button. This is in addition to an easy first start of the day when it was me that tended to overheat.

Alton seem to have a good reputation for aftersales service and my experience of them has also been good. It can take two or three weeks to get the parts, they seem to need to order them in, but I hope that no more will be required. They are always pleasant to deal with and very helpful.I suspect that the unacceptable delays etc. that Caroline has experienced are probably the fault of the firm thatsupplied and/or fitted it.The kit seems to be well made and I think that I have just been a bit unlucky.

None of the aboveshould put anyone off buying a kit, I am still glad that I did. There were days when I wanted to ride the Norton but just didn't want the hassle of kickstarting it and so either didn't ride , or used my oldish, but electric start, BMW. The Alton system should now enable me to continue using the Norton for years to come. I hope!

Previously richard_mills wrote:

I also have had some problems with my Alton starter which I fitted myself to my 850 with a primary chain drive. Bought it from Hawkshaws and like Karl Ifound them pleasant to deal with, as are Alton.

Fitting was not difficult except for finding space for the larger battery (a 'Platinum' AGM type from BOM Batteries) together with the solenoid, Pazon Smartfire box and Boyer 3-phase Powerbox all in the space designed for a standard battery. Also I found after fitting the system the crankshaft would only turn a few degrees; this was caused by the 3 fixing screws which hold the new inner chaincase being about 1/8" too long, so out came the hacksaw. I think that some crankcases are thinner than others and require shorter screws. Because there is no locking tab system for this fixing as Norton used, I used threadlock on these screws and have had no problems. Although not suggested by Alton, surely this is an obvious precaution to take, but perhaps not done by Caroline's fitter(?). The dowel arrangements were a little odd and I made my own offset dowel out of a stainless steel bolt. I also made a timing mark on the rotor for future use.

Starter worked well at first but then when out one day the alternator charge dropped to a very low level but got me home OK with the headlight turned off. Did some tests which indicated a fault with the stator, sent details direct to Alton who sent me a new one together with a new rotor 'just to be on the safe side'. Fitted it , but starter would not work. Started with kickstart and at least alternator seemed OK. More testing and emails and Alton sent new starter motor (which can easily be fitted without removing other parts). Fitted and all now working, just waiting for a decent day for a good test ride. When I pulled the original starter motor apart it had water in it and there was a lot of corrosion, brushes stuck etc.. I don't ride in wet weather these days and had only given it one 'bucket and sponge' wash in the short time since I fitted the starter. Alton tell me that they have only had one similar instance of this happening. I am going to cover the starter with some plastic sheeting when washing the bike in future.

Despite these problems, and in the hope and expectation (!) that all will be well in the future, I do not regret getting the system. I cannot kickstart the engine unless it is on it's centre stand and worry about engine cutting out at traffic lights, railway crossings etc. and therefore hold engine at a fast tickover. It then can get overheated and even more likely to stall. Now I can leave it at a steady tickover, or at a level crossing sometimes turn it off, knowing that I can resart at the touch of a button. This is in addition to an easy first start of the day when it was me that tended to overheat.

Alton seem to have a good reputation for aftersales service and my experience of them has also been good. It can take two or three weeks to get the parts, they seem to need to order them in, but I hope that no more will be required. They are always pleasant to deal with and very helpful.I suspect that the unacceptable delays etc. that Caroline has experienced are probably the fault of the firm thatsupplied and/or fitted it.The kit seems to be well made and I think that I have just been a bit unlucky.

None of the aboveshould put anyone off buying a kit, I am still glad that I did. There were days when I wanted to ride the Norton but just didn't want the hassle of kickstarting it and so either didn't ride , or used my oldish, but electric start, BMW. The Alton system should now enable me to continue using the Norton for years to come. I hope!

This made for very interesting reading as when my kit was originally fitted by the company who were involved with the kit development they commented about the fact that the 3 fixing screws for the inner chaincase were too long, they suggested that my Norton was in some way not standard which was why this problem occurred. I agree that threadlock would have been a very good idea but I put my trust in a company to fit the kit correctly and seem to have been let down big time. My dad has raced motorbikes all his life and was very successful on Manx Nortons, he is totally dumbfounded by what has happened to my Norton. He did all his own maintenance and has been up close with my bike on many occassions and whilst he might not ride anymore he still has an exceptional ear for a healthy running engine/bike and the fact that it is now being suggested that my bike is non standard and/or that excessive vibration has caused the problems that I have had with the Alton starter is way beyond a joke. To date I am still waiting for the matter to be sorted, my bike remains at the fitters premises in bits and without being dramatic any one of the failures could have been devastating to my bike.

Previously peter_stowe wrote:

After reading the comments regarding the kit on Access Norton it seems like this is way forward for me. I've had my Commando for 28 years so I can't bear the thought of my recent surgery stopping me riding it.

Mark- at the moment I have a 3 phase alternator with a suitable regulator/rectifier. On the Accesss Norton site you said that converted your 3 phase reg/ rect unit to work with the Alton single phase alternator. Can you explain how did this as that will save me buying a single phase unit

Thanks

HTH.

Mark Woodward.

Hi all. I have an 88 with a (Mk2A?) 850 Commando engine (#308573) installed upright. Like other older NOCcers I have problems using kickstarters, and have for some time mulled on the best way forward for an electric foot. I'm seriously considering an Alton unit as I have heard mostly good things about them, but have never heard of their installation on a dommie. I know there will need to be more in the way of alterations, not least going from tin primary to alloy, but my main fear is the starter fouling on the engine as of course I am effectively tilting back the barrels 15 degrees from what it was designed for. Has anybody out there any experience or views please? I dont want to make a very expensive purchase in vain! Thanks all.

The Alton is designed around a new replacement Commando inner primary, that will not replace an 88 tin primary even with a Commando engine.

Previously john_holmes wrote:

The Alton is designed around a new replacement Commando inner primary, that will not replace an 88 tin primary even with a Commando engine.

Thanks John, yes I appreciate the Alton conversion comes with a new inner primary, however I've seen numerous Dommies with Commando primaries so that set of problems of itself should not be insurmountable: re-drilling to suit the shifted position of the 3 crankcase holes and presumably some reconfiguration regarding gearbox and also mounting to rest of the bike/engine plates etc.

Also I think the centres (crank:mainshaft) differ- anyone have the numbers for these?

But as I posted, my biggest concern is fouling of the starter motor to the (upright) engine itself.

All comments appreciated.

regards, Mike