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Original Girling Master Cylinder Reservoir Bellows

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5 Aug 2020

Re: Original Girling Master Cylinder Reservoir Bellows

To the Fold:

My 1974 850 Dunstall/Commando has the original Girling Master cylinder and it was fitted with a rubber "bellows" type insert to balance the brake fluid. Is anyone reproducing this piece? I realize that the newer replacement piece probably works just fine, but it is an esthetic thing for me. Basically it looks pretty neat so why change a design that functions well to begin with. Sorry that I do not have an image of the piece to share. For those not familiar with this thing it literally is a bellowed insert much like a circular accordion. The flanged top edge seals the reservoir cap. That is all I have for now. I look forward to your replies.

Regards,

David Huss

CONUS

6 Aug 2020

Re: Original Girling Bellows

Dearest Katherine,

It seems like yesterday frolicking in the dale; counting backwards in Swahili, good times!!! But I digress. Thanks for guiding me to the schematic graphic of the bellows that I described. So back to my original question. Has anyone reproduced this piece or any NOS available someplace in "Norton-Land". Thanks again kiddo. I part with these famous words of mine: "If at first you don't succeed at least you succeeded at that." Feel free to use anytime you like or not.

Regards,

David Huss

CONUS

 

 

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You are missing that the current part in the Andover Norton photo does not match the original part. The current AN one has flat but tapered sides like a cone, the original had parallel sides but like fork gaitors had ribs as per the AN part sketch from the factory parts book.

7 Aug 2020

Re: Original Girling Bellows

Tony,

Le me splan it to ya.  I am aware of the newer bellows that are currently available. I do not wish to use that particular modification in my restoration project. Please note that I am seeking information or access to NOS kits that have the "older style" bellows. I hope that this clarifies your missed point. I appreciate the interest in my dilemma.(For those that think it is spelled "dilemna", what can I say. Really do not care.) Back to the commentary, but wait a brief musical interlude (insert "The Girl from Ipanema").--------------------------------------------------------------------(end song, continue chit-chat.) As I was saying thank you for the interest. Hopefully someone within this community can guide me in the correct direction.

Regards,

David Huss

CONUS

7 Aug 2020

Re:Original Girling Bellows

Mr. Holmes,

Being that a picture is worth a thousand words and I could possibly write a thousand words, then yes I am aware that the image does not match the currently produced part. Come on guys you are killing me here! Certainly somewhere in the British Isles with all the vintage motorcycles that exist and all the "Mom & Pop" or Crazy Uncle Frank repair shops there is an "old style" bellows sitting on the shelf. I am merely asking for a little help. So what do you say fella "Nortonistas"!!! It has been real, but I must get back to work even though I am the boss. I truly hope that I have clarified things. Best to all and stop thinking so much!

Regards,

David Huss

CONUS 

 

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Exactly why, or what is it that makes you want an original, or original copy? Doesn't the currently supplied one work as well? What if the newer design works even better than the original?

Just wondering.

Regards,

George.

 

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9 Aug 2020

Re: Original Girling Bellows-The Saga Continues

Hey There My Man George,

Thanks for the reply. As you all remember from the last episode; The Daring yet casually debonair raconteur Dave ventured forth on the noble pursuit of the "Every Illusive" Original Girling Master Cylinder Reservoir Bellows. DUN DUN DUNNNNN!!!! Guided by well-minded Nortonistas the trek has seen its ups and downs. We catch up with our trekker as he encounters the "most feared" and treacherous Why-ya-wanna-do-dat-for-asaurus. I would be lying to you if I said this was not a terrifying encounter. Yet, out of nowhere that fragrant aroma of success, some call it “Epiphany for Men” others just say something nondescript. The ever curious behemoth was taken back when in he learned that the original bellows, albeit rare, was part of the factory install on Dave’s 1974 850 Commando. The quest to restore the Commando to original condition is a worthwhile endeavor and the extra time to locate the desired piece will have its benefits. That being said the two adversaries parted ways; promising to write occasionally or at least think about it. This concludes the adventure as other treks are on the horizon. It has been real folks.  Will cherish the comradeship for some time to come.

P.S. I located the part here in the States. Thanks again for all the interest and tolerating my commentaries.

Regards & Best To All-“LONG LIVE NORTON”,

David Huss

CONUS

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I would argue that the 'new' style bellows is superior. It can be folded up to, effectively, a flat disc (you do install them this way, don't you?). Thus it displaces less fluid that the original bellows-style which always projects further down into the reservoir body.. Allowing more fluid in the reservoir - which is a good thing.

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23Aug20

Re: Bellows-New versus Old

Mr. T,

Thanks for the reply concerning the master cylinder bellows. Sometimes new is not preferred as is the case with my '74 Norton. When the hydraulics and its components where designed and installed by the factory all worked very well. It has worked very well since. I believe in the "purity of intent" as it may apply to my situation. That being said restoring the bike to its original form is the game plan. "Don't fix what ain't broke" to coin the rural vernacular. I will stick with the "old style" bellows as long as I can locate them.

As for the fluid level once the system has been purged and pressure to the caliper has been maintained all is good. I check the reservoir level and top off the fluid as required, no problems ever encountered. Messing with the vintage stuff is very satisfying especially when the original components still function. Enough said on the subject.

Do you know what the Letter and Number code found on the 19" Dunlop WM2 rims designates? I have MB41 on my rims. I have seen another variation out there with MC275. Just wondering!

 

Thanks again,

David Huss

CONUS

 

 

 

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The newer bellows, folds correctly as per the instructions from Lockheed who made the original master cylinder. How old is the rubber on the original you have. 

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25Aug20

 

Re: Bellows-New versus Old

Mr. Cutler or Miss Cutler (Being ignorant of which may apply),

Anyway. To answer your question the current bellows is probably from 1980. It was from inventory that I purchased several years ago. I keep all the old rubber pieces coated in talcum powder(unscented) to keep the moisture from damaging the material and away from any heat sources as best that I can. The "rubber dixie-cup" style replacement was available, but I did not like the looks of the thing so I never bought any. I ask that you refer to my earlier comments about this subject. I am trying in good faith to convey the point of not liking the "newer" version. Please honor my wishes and stop promoting the "damn thing". I have no desire to use them. Once again I wish to thank all who have replied and shown interest in the subject. The dialog has been interesting and no malice or hard feelings should be ever be felt or assumed.

Best to All,

David Huss

CONUS

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The new version (the design of which is decades old now) will be cheaper to produce as the tooling cost for moulding is a simpler design. The new version allows a higher level of brake fluid to be contained in the reservoir so giving a greater margin of safety/time in the event of a fluid leak when out riding.

I wonder if your penchant for 'originality' includes the chromed discs that wear unevenly, rock hard 1980 tyres that will invalidate your insurance in the event of a crash, Amal carbs that will be worn out. Wiring that will be rock hard and all the other things that age does to these machines.

Live in the modern age, and stop shouting  

 

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Some wheels that came with/from my Dommie (NOT on it- it got new ones!) that still have ancient tyres installed and air from the 1970's in them. I guess these will be most valuable for someone wanting 'original', even down to the air! 

Where this could potentially lead to is where someone is happy to use, or actually wants, for example, the 'widowmaker' frame or  other pieces that were upgraded due to safety or service concerns just to have it 'as it came out of the crate in 1967 or whenever.

This is where I get completely lost on the 100 point perfect rebuilds. I like to ride my bikes and just like 'back in the day', if something is/was available that made riding the bike better, we fitted it, whether that was new (better) tyres, boyer ignition, converting to disc brakes, Dunstall exhausts, Craven racks and top boxes etc  etc. I still abide by that philosophy today on all my bikes.

But as David implies, each to their own. I'm sure an old bellows isn't going to cause an accident. 

Would be a very boring place if everyone did exactly the same as everyone else. 

Regards, George. 

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To be fair to our friend, he was asking where he could obtain *new* parts to the old design. So sniping about 40 year old tyres etc. isn't appropriate. That he is determined to use a component that cannot be seen by anyone when the bike is assembled rather than one has been refined, improved and is readily available is, let's say, unusual. But he's not doing harm to himself or anyone else.

It occurs to me that some Brembo master cylinders use the concertina style of bellows, admittedly in a much deeper revervoir. I wonder whether they'd fit: https://www.motorworks.co.uk/vlive/Shop/Parts.php?T=6&Q=BRA57603

26 Aug 20

 

Re: The New Version

Petey,

Step away from the edge-its going to be alllllright.!!! Thank you for bringing me up to speed on manufacturing practices and design philosophy. You really got me there with the penchant reference about chrome discs and rock hard tyres. Lest I forget the worn-out Amal carbs and other deteriorated bits and pieces. What a devastating blow to my ego. Give me a moment to recover as I may need a "group hug". Fat chance. Now back to the "World According to Petey". Yes I do retain the chrome front disc and it works pretty good. I have found that a trued & balanced wheel prevents a massive amount of wear irregularity. But, wait there is more. That's right Petey ol'boy. I do live in the modern age contrary to  the belief of some of those out there. And I do prefer "old" over "new" in most cases as I have found that appreciating what was before helps guide you through the present. Thanks for the interest and concern. I hope that my  "shouting" did not render any permanent damage to your enlightened nature.

Regards,

David Huss

CONUS

 

In reply to by george_farenden

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26 Aug 20

 

Re: I have..............

George,

What a thoughtful response. Most appreciated. Let me clarify that I am not attempting a "100%" restore. The bike was "100%" only once in its life and never will be again. I am a purest for certain things all the others will be what they are. Thank you again. I will hoist one to you this evening.

Regards,

David_Huss

CONUS

26 Aug 20

Re:To be fair to our friend, he........

ST,

I may be doing a fair portion of "hoisting" this evening thanks to you and George. There is a logic to my madness and it takes all my time. You are spot-on with the Brembo bellows; the PS15 seems to be a fair match. There is also a unit provided by Grimeca that has promise. I was fortunate to have acquired the NOS Lockheed kits a few years ago. That is all for now. Thank you again. What a great time I am having with this organization.

Regards,

David Huss

CONUS

 

 


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