Light Heavy Weight Norton for sale.

Kickstarts are getting rare, somewhere on here someone was investigating whether an AMC one was the same, they may be easier to source. I have a spare but it has no splines!

Previously Dan Field wrote:

Kickstarts are getting rare, somewhere on here someone was investigating whether an AMC one was the same, they may be easier to source. I have a spare but it has no splines!

Hello Dan,

There are links to Villiers site where a 5/8 kickstart is advertised--there is a list of Villiers engines it fits on the page but no mention of Nortons

http://villiersservices.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8_94&products_id=255&zenid=83giki5f472vsvakkpc66olvc0

I have left a message to ask about the splines--I think it is suitable but I'll speak to them first.

They certainly look right, keep us posted!

I have got a reply--they say they are the same ones. I have asked them to double check the splines.

I thikn Patrick commented on the same kickstart when some one else published a link

£65---looks very reasonable for that... I got a brake pedal today via E-bay--something is on its way --I can't remember what mind, has the NOC spares scheme got a Neil Shoosmith?

Ordered a new carb from Amal MK1.5 and am enquiring about some stainless cones from Armours. A fiend of mine will roll the baffles and weld the ends on etc--All my bikes have home made silencers--some of them have given many thousands of miles use. The picture is of my Rickman Mettise at the West Stow Village--I do early medieval re-enactments

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...'has the NOC spares scheme got a Neil Shoosmith?'

Yes indeed. Here he is in person:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKqpvriKZuA

Do we know for sure if the Villiers kick start has the wrong offset?

Previously patrick_mullen wrote:

Neil Shoosmith is the man in charge of the NOC spares but often very hard to catch up with.

Ian Somerville, who's address and phone number is in Roadholder, is the other person running the spares and he is probably your best contact as he is usually easier to get. Both of them are very helpful but remember that they deal with spares for ALL Nortons so might not know instantly if you ask for a 'thingy' to fit your Lightweight.

I think they actually had NOS brake levers in stock.

The thing to watch with the kick start is the offset to make sure it clears the silencer. I was an accountant when I was alive and would begrudge paying £65 + VAT etc for a shiny new chrome one if I then had to roast it with the acetylene to alter the offset. Best to get an old rusty Villiers one, reshape and then rechrome; maybe the supplier would allow you to purchase on sale or return (if it proved to be the wrong offset).

Anyway, keep on with the good work.

Patrick

Hello Patrick,

Thanks for that--I mention Neil as--hilariously--I have ordered bits from several sources and the Hermes e-mail tells the sender by name not the contents.

I plan to make my own silencers-- so the question of offset is up in the air--I plan some quite slim cones--but ultimately I could make them to fit. I tried to phone the Villiers people today but they do not open on Wednesdays. I have a set of downpipe--whether for a Jubilee or a Navigator I know not--the Armours catalogue implies that they are the same but I see on this forum that is not entirely true.

The pipes have a bracket at the wide point of the pipe with a large hole--which does not seem to line up with any fixing.

I have a mangled (splines intact) gear pedal--I can make one to fit using these splines.

I'll speak to the kick start wallahs tomorrow. I have tried and failed to get old kick starts--the 5/8 sizes seem rare.

Cheers

JPA

Previously patrick_mullen wrote:

Hello John,

If this is the large hole it fits unto the hex bar for the footrests. This is a picture of a Norton original: the Armours pipe is shaped a bit odd at this point but it works. Officially the Navigator pipe is 1/2" longer than the Jubilee one but you can make either fit with a bit of pushing and shoving.

Patrick

Mine'll be the Armours one I suspect--the same sort of thing but not as statuesque . What is this hex bar? I have ordered some footrests--probably my parcel. There is a long stud at the bottom I think it is visible on Ulrich's picture of the frame and engine on the bench. Cheers

JPA

Hello All,

Sadly--while having a 5/8 hole--the Villiers Kickstart has the wrong splines according to their service desk.

Dang that's annoying! Thought we were onto a winner.

the hex bar is what the footrest bolt onto, it also secures the headers and rear brake pedal stop.

dan

Hello All

I do not seem to have any such hexagon bar. Underneath eh engine there is a stand pivot and another holding a bracket to do with the stand on place. See the picture.

I thought the kickstart looked good but...

The FB owners club page revealed this

'Gear change lever is common with post 1956 matchless AJS heavy weight singles and twins fitted with the AMC gearbox, also light weight 250 and 350cc Matchless, Norton Jubilee and Navigator, etc , as well as post 1955 Norton model 50, ES2,and Dominators,Kick start is same spline as lightweight AJS/Matchless 250/350cc, Norton Jubilee/Navigator and FB/James 150. 175,200 and 250cc, although the actual bend of the shaft may vary according to which model they were designed for'

The plot thickens

JPA

There should be a place for the bar where the footrests and header mounts, it slides into place and has threads at each end. The foot rests have a hexagon hole so they don't turn and can be adjusted a little.

no pic by the way!

dan

Previously Dan Field wrote

...no pic by the way!

Yes, we have a pic:

hexagon rod, footrest and brake pedal stop

Previously patrick_mullen wrote:

What we need is a 'proper engineer' who can tell us how you actually measure a spline e.g. we all know how you measure a thread such as 5/8" BSF, UNF, CEI, etc. A previous person (maybe still around) had counted the splines and I believe from memory the Villiers kick start from this same supplier was reputedly the same number of splines as his Norton one. Strange therefore that the supplier is now saying that the spline is different. But maybe there is more to splines than we know - a 5/8"BSF nut doesn't fit a 5/8" UNF thread for example!.

The bit about gearlevers is interesting but it is of course possible that a gear lever from a Jubilee could fit say a FB but the reverse did not always have to apply. My info was based on actually trying a new replica Dominator lever -described as fitting Lightweights as well- but it fouled against the timing cover. Over the past few years I have also seen new Dominator gearlevers being sold on eBay "because they didn't fit the Lightweight they were bought for". So it seemed that I wasn't the only one this had happened -in my case the trader took the lever back and said he would amend the description to say it didn't fit the Jubilee/Navigator.

Patrick

Hello Patrick,

I agree about the fitting one way and not the other. I often think that there are many definitions of 'fit'. I spoke the Villiers people today but the guy I spoke to to admitted he did not have a clue what the differences were but it may have been that they use a coarser spline than Nortons.

I know what I am going to do now. I shall use the splined end from a new gear pedal as the basis for re-constructed kickstart pedal--I dabble with forging replica weapon and suchlike. A bicycle crank makes a good start point. I will then need another gear pedal but I'll alter the mutilated one I have.

Cheers

JPA

Previously John Pullen-Appleby wrote:

Previously patrick_mullen wrote:

What we need is a 'proper engineer' who can tell us how you actually measure a spline e.g. we all know how you measure a thread such as 5/8" BSF, UNF, CEI, etc. A previous person (maybe still around) had counted the splines and I believe from memory the Villiers kick start from this same supplier was reputedly the same number of splines as his Norton one. Strange therefore that the supplier is now saying that the spline is different. But maybe there is more to splines than we know - a 5/8"BSF nut doesn't fit a 5/8" UNF thread for example!.

The bit about gearlevers is interesting but it is of course possible that a gear lever from a Jubilee could fit say a FB but the reverse did not always have to apply. My info was based on actually trying a new replica Dominator lever -described as fitting Lightweights as well- but it fouled against the timing cover. Over the past few years I have also seen new Dominator gearlevers being sold on eBay "because they didn't fit the Lightweight they were bought for". So it seemed that I wasn't the only one this had happened -in my case the trader took the lever back and said he would amend the description to say it didn't fit the Jubilee/Navigator.

Patrick

Hello Patrick,

I agree about the fitting one way and not the other. I often think that there are many definitions of 'fit'. I spoke the Villiers people today but the guy I spoke to to admitted he did not have a clue what the differences were but it may have been that they use a coarser spline than Nortons.

I know what I am going to do now. I shall use the splined end from a new gear pedal as the basis for re-constructed kickstart pedal--I dabble with forging replica weapon and suchlike. A bicycle crank makes a good start point. I will then need another gear pedal but I'll alter the mutilated one I have.

Cheers

JPA

Hello Patrick,

Indeed there are all different pitches for splines. A mate of mine came round today and told me where I could get one cut--but it would be dear

Previously Ulrich Hoffmann wrote:

Previously Dan Field wrote

...no pic by the way!

Yes, we have a pic:

hexagon rod, footrest and brake pedal stop

Hello Dan and Ulrich

Mine does not seem to have the hexagon bar pieces, Here is that area on my bike. There appears to be a big stud going through the frame and the centre stand

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Sorry the pic is too dark to see Clearly!

Previously Dan Field wrote:

Sorry the pic is too dark to see Clearly!

I see what you mean

how about these

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Do the hexagons go onto the stud holding the stand on?

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Previously John Pullen-Appleby wrote:

Do the hexagons go onto the stud holding the stand on?

The bracket on my frame looks different. Here is a pic during dismantling:

You can see the mainstand mounted on the rear of the centre channel and the hex rod goes through the other tube . There is a bracket with two holes on each frame rail. The one for the hex rod has a hexagon hole ( obviously..) The main stand stop is mounted togehter fith a rubber mudflap on the two holes at the bottom of the frame channel.

Another pic of the rear centre channel seen from top:

double post!

Looking at the Ebay pics, there weren't any!

Hello Ulrich and Dan,

Thank you for all your sterling advice and pics------the spares scheme has no hexagon rods. As it is a stainless hexagon--IE expensive to manufacture (and harder to machine) I wonder if they used a metric size--could someone measure one for me.

Many years ago a mate of mine fitted shone Suzuki forms to a Triumph 3ta--a perfect fit--especially as the Japanese stem post turned out to be 1 inch in diameter.

Thanks again

JPA

PS

My NOC parcel arrived today. I have a gear pedal on the way--operation home made kickstart is under way

PPS

I am hoping the engine internals are good--they won't be rust the whole engine appears to be full up with oil--not having a non-return valve is not bad

Hello Patrick,

Thanks for that--I had my manuals and lists arrive today and Ulrich was kind enough to send me links to more such resources. The mystery of the hexagon sizes is solved. The Hexagon is .6 inch (15.24) the Across Corners (British way of measuring hexagons--rather the American AF across flats) head size fro 5/16 BSF 1/4 Whitworth--13.5 AF.

I suspect hard to find--but not impossible to practically replicate

See

http://www.sat.dundee.ac.uk/psc/spanner_jaw.html

Previously John Pullen-Appleby wrote:

Hello Patrick,

Thanks for that--I had my manuals and lists arrive today and Ulrich was kind enough to send me links to more such resources. The mystery of the hexagon sizes is solved. The Hexagon is .6 inch (15.24) the Across Corners (British way of measuring hexagons--rather the American AF across flats) head size for 5/16 BSF 1/4 Whitworth--13.5 AF.

I suspect hard to find--but not impossible to practically replicate

I just looked in the shed and found that I had a piece--admittedly in brass--(my father was a toolmaker at Paxman diesels in Colchester).

See

http://www.sat.dundee.ac.uk/psc/spanner_jaw.html

Huzzah for model engineers! I have some suitable stainless hex in the post.

John,

I had time this afternoon to measure my footrest barin the garage. It is a stainless one as sold to me by the NOC spares scheme.

I measured across the flats (none of this US nonsense) at 0.523". The overall length is 15 1/4" with the final 3/4" at each end threaded 1/2" by 26 tpi which is cycle.

Hope this helps.

By the way - why not start a new thread as I am now scrolling through 3 pages to get to the newest post.

Keep up the interesting questions,

Crawford

Hello Crawford

Thanks for the measurement--the American way of measuring hexagons is AF--hence all the UNF spanners etc--in good blighty we use to measure across the corners.

A new thread would be good. It's engine day tomorrow--I'll start then--what horrors lay within? It has stood so long that the oil was quite clear but the filter etc were coated with a kind of moly slip like substance