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Wipac Alternator

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Would anyone know if the wipac alternator used on the lightweights are single or 3 phase?

Cheers

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hello now have a look at Royal Enfield  five wire alternators  for coil ignition there very similar  to wipac   ,allturnatly  look at pit bike CDI mag fly wheel  you can get for 20 quid  with some lathe work to machine out the center to fit the Norton shaft     and make up a back plate to mount on the alternator mount  then you have  a contactless ignition and a 65w changer for the lights         yours  Anna J  

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The original wipac is 3 wire, they are not available anymore but can be rewound, or the Lucas item will fit although the clearance is a bit greater I think. Al Osborne is the man to ask about all things electrical! 

I quite like the idea of CDI ignition athough a 12 v conversion and Boyer works well enough for me! 

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I can't imagine that it was anything other than single phase. Just be gratefull its not an early Ducati as some their ideas are off the planet.

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hello well my idea  was to save a bit of money  on eBay you can buy pit bike parts  cheap like a full cdi fly wheel mag  and a bit smaller then a Lucas alternator  and  you have a contactless ignition and 65w lighting  witch can be wired to the battery  via a  solid state rectifier  AC to Dc 12v  lighting  only need some work to machine the fly wheel center out so it fits a Norton crankshaft end  alternator side and a back plate to fit on Lucas mounting  with slots in so yo can do the timing So with a bit of work you have CDI ignition and lighting all in one, And also on eBay  a full alternator and rotor for Royal Enfield  3 phase or single  just take a look at your options, and think outside the box  save cash  , yours   Anna J  

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According to the F Neill book, it is single phase. Like the heavy twins the output was from either 3 or 6 of the stator coils in series depending on whether or not the headlight was on.

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We really need a "real electrician" - (AL O) -to tell us the difference when referring to a bike alternator.  

In mains electricity single phase is 230V and three phase is 415V. So the difference here is important ; you can't use three phase equipment on a single phase supply (without special inverters).  

Patrick   

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I once drilled and blew a 415v 3 phase supply  and put a factory out of action till a 120 amp fuse could be found. I can assure you its nothing like a Wipac alternator!!.  

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I don't doubt you for one moment, Robert.  I think the Wipac alternator is single phase 6 volt (which can easily be changed to 12 volt) but Martin S might just have a technical reason for asking the question. And I am just curious why it is referred to as single/three phase in the first place.

Patrick

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Ok I've got to own up - I'm also building up a Matchless lightweight 350 that uses many parts as the AMC's lightweight Norton's including the Wipac alternator. On the owners site some has very kindly published instructions on up grading to 12v and boyer ignition. With this upgrade he has connected the stators 3 wires to a 3 phase reg/rectifier unit. How this works I don't know but apparently it does but the usual manner is to connect two of the said wires together.

https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/AJS-Matchless+Lightweight+12V+conversion/117790

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My guess is that 6V +6V +0V = 12V.  (Three outputs wired in series via the reg/rectifier).

Now Al is sure to say that I'm talking gibberish and he might be right. 

That's an interesting article. 

 Patrick

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There is sound advice here--all British bike alternators were single phase as I understand it--until some of the later Triumph twins using an RM24 stator.

 

As I understand it--and there is bloke trading as Paul Goff who knows far more than me

 

There was a Lucas RM 14 small diameter rotor and stator--one finds them at jumbles--the magnets look like they are inset in brass--little brass lines round them --very durable but one cannot get the stators.

 

Then there is the WIPAC one fitted to Nortons and other AMC lightweights--and Bantams (different bore diameters though)

 

 

They can all be converted (bar the CDI ones with lots of wires)  to 12 volt by joining two of the wires together.  Some bikes had this as standard--those that were still using the RM 19 unencapsulated stator.

 

The later RM21 was two wires (single phase) and was plastic encapsulated.  The three phase ones go back to three wires.

 

They are all either six or 12 volt and differ in terms of their output in wattage (an RM24 is 180 watt 3 phase)--I have them on all my Triumphs--My BSA has a single phase RM21 that was once on the older Triumph.

My Norton Navigator has a wipac rotor and a lucas stator (you lose output due to the big gap) that is said to generate 200watts.

 

Even the little RM 14 can be converted to 12 volts but batteries need to be charged frequently is the lights are used a lot.

I hope this helps

JPA

PS

I know nothing about the Enfield ones--I think they are WIPAC or a copy

 

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I’ve joined two of my alternator wires together and connected them to a modern reg/rect, that gives me 12v dc which has improved the lighting no end, got rid of the resistor wire and enabled me to fit a Boyer ignition. It’s all on Al Os website. Easy job and worth the effort! 

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I agree with Dan, I converted my 64 Navigator to 12v and Pazon electronic ignition with Al's advice and it has transformed what was already a good bike.   You can find lots of advice on his website - I've attached some of it to give you a feel for what is a straight forward job - including a representative wiring diagram and the Pazon manual which I found invaluable.   I used one of his A1 Reg voltage regulator / rectifier and a separate capacitor rather than the Boyer Bransden Power box.   I found a 5 minute phone call to Al clarified the few questions I had after reading his guides and the whole job took about two hours.  Good luck!

Nick 

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Yes Colin - I do  - this year is 25 years of membership although I've not bothered with lightweights before.

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Now listen up-Wipac never made a 3 phase alternator. 3 wires does NOT mean 3 phase.

The Lucas RM24 series was the 3 phase series . You will never see the RM number on the actual part. 3 phase stators have 9 pole pieces. All Wipac and Lucas rotors have 6 magnets, there is no such thing as a 3 phase rotor. The Lucas rotors come in 70mm (up to early 1960s) later rotors are all 74mm. The minimum rotor stator gap is 8 thou. a larger gap (ie 70mm rotor in a later 74mm stator) works without harm but very reduced electricity generated. The only new stator for 6V is the RM19 or equivalent, and if converted to two wires then its output is the same as the RM21 (110W ish)

Nice to see above people quoting my words, I must be nearly famous.

Regarding the AMC/Matchless person using a 3 phase reg/rect on the 3 Wipac wires, yes it might work, but not right. As long as no damage is done then he is 'getting away with it'

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http://www.powerdynamo.biz/eng/products.htm

 Replace the Lucas (1 cylinder and also 2 cylinders). In my 16h works very well. (It is a little expensive, more than 700 euros...).

Gerardo.

'Regarding the AMC/Matchless person using a 3 phase reg/rect on the 3 Wipac wires, yes it might work, but not right. As long as no damage is done then he is getting away with it'

Thanks all for the replies and Alan - what is it that's wrong using the 3 phase reg/rec? - seeing as I don't understand the difference in the workings of a 3 phase unit over the single phase one.

Cheers

Martin

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So what is wrong with using a 3 phase reg/rect on the Wipac 3 wire stator? Good question. The single phase reg/rect has a 4 diode bridge rectifier, while the 3 phase has a 6 diode bridge rectifier. In one respect this would appear to work, but as a seller of these devices if I knew it was being used other than intended then if it should fail I would quote that it was used outside of  its intended parameter therefore any guarantee is null and void. So if it works then you are 'getting away' with it.

 

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