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Is this for Real? On the Andover Norton website!

We recently received this mail: "I bought a full gasket set for an 850 Commando part no 06-5030 through the Norton Owners Club. The cylinder base gasket has failed at the driveside rear after a very low mileage(less than 2000 miles). Also, when I removed the head, the rear part of the composite gasket has moved, I noticed this at first because the oil drain hole was partially covered by the gasket. The head had been correctly torqued down after the recommended mileages & was not loose when removing the bolts." Whilst the card (see picture) that came with the gasket set slyly apes Andover Norton's packing neither the label, nor the product, is anything to do with Andover Norton. Only when you see the Andover Norton logo and address on the card you can be sure the part is approved and tested by us, the people who ride Nortons in everyday life and own the factory drawings and tooling to produce proper Norton parts.

If you see the label on the right the part has never been near Andover and is not a Genuine Norton Factory Spare Part, whatever the fancy label says.

???????????

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Thanks, got it â second-to-last story on the page. From what I've seen since April this year,AN no longer uses packing like that for items ordered directly from them. But maybe they still supply stock with a card like that to retailers? Anyway I bet there's still stuff like this out there.

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I have a lot of respect for AN, but it's a bit naughty of them if they repeated their correspondent's claim without checking with the Club (and dangerous for AN, since arguably there is a defamatory implication here).

In their place I would have tried a quiet word with the spares scheme before going public.

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A little bit odd that the base gasket failed so soon. They aren't much more than a piece of paper, so a counterfeiter would have to try very hard to make it 'fail'. Makes me wonder what else was wrong with the motor or the way it was put together. We also all know that the issue of who is making 'real' parts and who is claimed by the others of producing counterfeit parts is a matter of some contention!

And what does "the head was not loose when removing the bolts" really mean?

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I assume that it's a clumsy way of saying that the fasteners were still at something like their correct torque.

Previously David Cooper wrote:

And what does "the head was not loose when removing the bolts" really mean?

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I can see Andover Norton's point the parts being complained about are not from them but are from Norvil with their very similar copy of Andover Norton's parts card hence whyAndover Nortonhave changed theirs.

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This defamatory statement was brought to the attention of the NOC Exec some months ago and itâs very disappointing that Andover Norton have not yet seen fit to remove it. Our understanding is that the gaskets in question were indeed purchased by the club from that well known supplier based in Staffordshire. On enquiry they advised - and are prepared to swear an affidavit to the fact - that it was part of a consignment originating from - you guessed it.. Andover Norton...

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My guess would be that the well-known supplier based in Staffordshire swears a lot ... What the paper trail might reveal would be more persuasive.

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OK, so you can even buy fake Commando parts while so many urgently needed parts for 50's singles are not available in genuine or even fake!

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To be fair, Neil,its not the clubs responsibility to make parts that you need for your bike. You however, could take the time to acquire said parts, find a shop that is willing to make it, forge it, cast it, etc. I offer those items for sale to the club, or to owners directly.

I have.

Its easier to complaint, than to take action. Show us what you can do !!!

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I offered to get quotes from a very good supplier I use, the offer was on this forum, all I need is for someone to give me a drawing or dimensioned sketch of a part.

Still waiting !!!!

What is the spares scheme for, because I thought it was to cater for the more obscure parts to keep bikes on the road.

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Previously Peter White wrote:

This defamatory statement was brought to the attention of the NOC Exec some months ago and itâs very disappointing that Andover Norton have not yet seen fit to remove it. Our understanding is that the gaskets in question were indeed purchased by the club from that well known supplier based in Staffordshire. On enquiry they advised - and are prepared to swear an affidavit to the fact - that it was part of a consignment originating from - you guessed it.. Andover Norton...

Given that I cancelled the account of "Norvil Motorcycles" with Andover Norton half a decade ago- in fact on 1st October, 2012- I, too, would like to see the paper trail for what is clearly not sourced from us. In fact I declined to sell anything to that enterprise since that date.As a common gasket does not normally have a shelf live of over 5 years you may ask yourself how believeable the claim from Mr.Emery is this was a gasket sourced from us.

And talking of sourcing: Andover Norton has, over the last ten years, offered to supply the Club Spares Scheme again and again. Nothing ever came of it bar the purchase of a handful of rotary parts for a spares scheme administrator. Ask yourself why the Club's Spares Scheme continues to spend your money with somebody whom I, as a member since the 1970s, remember as having been "problematic" for the club again and again. The recent legally insubstantial threat- that cost your money- is but one example.

What I publish on Andover Norton's webpages is what I believe is true. If a party concerned has a problem with my opinion they know where to find me. If that party can convince me that what I published is false I remove that statement immediately. In the case above that is highly unlikely.

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Time and again I see this issue, on this forum, of the relationship between the NOC, Norvil and Andover Norton. Personally I have sworn off buying anything from Norvil ever again, as I don't think it's a fit and proper business to receive my money, and parts that I have bought from them have, on more than one occasion, been inaccurately made or just substandard. Given the recent, costly farce arising from the litigious bent of Norvil's owner, I think it is long past time that the NOC ceased to do business with them.

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Skip / John,

I waited 8 years with my request to the club for a set of 57/58 singles engine plates. I even sent the club the drawings but they said they needed the actual parts...Great. Then a very kind member from Victoria, AUS offered to have a set made for me. I bought two sets. The other I donated to the club as a template AFTER I confirmed that my set was a perfect fit. (Thanks Ian)

You don't even hear the club asking for genuine parts (List) that are much needed, so they can have batches made. We may as well have a face book swap shop for free. The only thing missing would be the roadholder brought to us by our wonderful editor. Business as usual?

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hello well, I do know this topic will run and run So What Chance as any member of having parts made by this club that are not availableanywhere else, I Think it well could be a big fat Zero when I buy parts I need they alwayscome From RGM Motors, and every one has fitted correctly, except for the poorly made Wassel copiesof a pair of full-bore exhaustpipes the left-hand side one fitted ok no bother, but the right-hand side one was another story, when I fitted to the Engine and screwed up the exhause rose the end that fits into the silencer was going under the frame and would not meet up with the silencer at all , So I rang Lorance he said put them back in their box and send them back to me , I will refund you, so thats what I did and later recived my payment and no more said so after this it was a long job hunting some that would fit corectly, but I got there, in the End, Had to have one right Pipe made to fit, and I belive 70% of all 650 exhaust pipes are wrongly made, the atlas likewise, its the after markets failings and lot of other parts that are made for the commando and sold as dominator end up not fitting right, some parts from the commando will fit the dominator but some will not, So beawear Out their get to know your parts before buying anything, do your research yours anna j

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sad

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Previously joe_seifert wrote:

Previously Peter White wrote:

This defamatory statement was brought to the attention of the NOC Exec some months ago and itâs very disappointing that Andover Norton have not yet seen fit to remove it. Our understanding is that the gaskets in question were indeed purchased by the club from that well known supplier based in Staffordshire. On enquiry they advised - and are prepared to swear an affidavit to the fact - that it was part of a consignment originating from - you guessed it.. Andover Norton...

Given that I cancelled the account of "Norvil Motorcycles" with Andover Norton half a decade ago- in fact on 1st October, 2012- I, too, would like to see the paper trail for what is clearly not sourced from us. In fact I declined to sell anything to that enterprise since that date.As a common gasket does not normally have a shelf live of over 5 years you may ask yourself how believeable the claim from Mr.Emery is this was a gasket sourced from us.

And talking of sourcing: Andover Norton has, over the last ten years, offered to supply the Club Spares Scheme again and again. Nothing ever came of it bar the purchase of a handful of rotary parts for a spares scheme administrator. Ask yourself why the Club's Spares Scheme continues to spend your money with somebody whom I, as a member since the 1970s, remember as having been "problematic" for the club again and again. The recent legally insubstantial threat- that cost your money- is but one example.

What I publish on Andover Norton's webpages is what I believe is true. If a party concerned has a problem with my opinion they know where to find me. If that party can convince me that what I published is false I remove that statement immediately. In the case above that is highly unlikely.

So Joe why does the Spares scheme not respond to your overtures?

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sad

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Previously john_hall1 wrote:

So Joe why does the Spares scheme not respond to your overtures?

Good question!

Some years ago I've sent them two parts lists for lightweights which I've scanned my self into searchable PDFs. They never ever apeared on the NOC-shop.

Fritz

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Previously john_hall1 wrote:

Previously joe_seifert wrote:

Previously Peter White wrote:

This defamatory statement was brought to the attention of the NOC Exec some months ago and itâs very disappointing that Andover Norton have not yet seen fit to remove it. Our understanding is that the gaskets in question were indeed purchased by the club from that well known supplier based in Staffordshire. On enquiry they advised - and are prepared to swear an affidavit to the fact - that it was part of a consignment originating from - you guessed it.. Andover Norton...

Given that I cancelled the account of "Norvil Motorcycles" with Andover Norton half a decade ago- in fact on 1st October, 2012- I, too, would like to see the paper trail for what is clearly not sourced from us. In fact I declined to sell anything to that enterprise since that date.As a common gasket does not normally have a shelf live of over 5 years you may ask yourself how believeable the claim from Mr.Emery is this was a gasket sourced from us.

And talking of sourcing: Andover Norton has, over the last ten years, offered to supply the Club Spares Scheme again and again. Nothing ever came of it bar the purchase of a handful of rotary parts for a spares scheme administrator. Ask yourself why the Club's Spares Scheme continues to spend your money with somebody whom I, as a member since the 1970s, remember as having been "problematic" for the club again and again. The recent legally insubstantial threat- that cost your money- is but one example.

What I publish on Andover Norton's webpages is what I believe is true. If a party concerned has a problem with my opinion they know where to find me. If that party can convince me that what I published is false I remove that statement immediately. In the case above that is highly unlikely.

So Joe why does the Spares scheme not respond to your overtures?

Ask them, not us. Quite frankly we aren't all that interested any more. What reasons the spares officer(s) has/have is open to speculation. I decline to speculate.

The thing that angers me most is that I support people I'd rather not, against my will, with my membership fees, and have done so for the four decades I have been a member of the NOC.One of our staff has let his membership lapse already. I haven't- yet.

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Does the club actually support any suppliers directly (other than allowing ads in Roadholder)? If so maybe this should be discussed at an AGM.

The most recent accounts I can find on the website are for 2015 and no mention is made here of any payments to suppliers, unless this included in "purchases" under the spares scheme heading.

Does the NOC have a policy when it comes to selecting parts suppliers?

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Not just the suppliers, Ian, but none existent parts to manufacture.

Does the NOC have a policy to help keep Norton's, other than Commando's on the road?

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Previously john_hall1 wrote:

We recently received this mail: "I bought a full gasket set for an 850 Commando part no 06-5030 through the Norton Owners Club. The cylinder base gasket has failed at the driveside rear after a very low mileage(less than 2000 miles). Also, when I removed the head, the rear part of the composite gasket has moved, I noticed this at first because the oil drain hole was partially covered by the gasket. The head had been correctly torqued down after the recommended mileages & was not loose when removing the bolts."

....................................

Going back to the complaint about the base gasket, as has already been said, the owner would have to try pretty hard to make one fail. Once it is there, and properly torqued down, between a clean and level crankcase and likewise a clean and flat cylinder base, it can hardly go anywhere, unless something else has happened to cause it to fail. Therefore it is most unlikely to be the fault of the gasket. Jo would know that.

Likewise, 'the rear part of the composite (head) gasket has moved'....? How would it move, when pinned between clean and flat cylinder and head? Only if something else had caused it to, I would suggest. Maybe not so clean and flat; or not correctly torqued down. How does just the rear part of the gasket move?

...'was not loose when removing the bolts'? Hardly a description from an engineer; all of which makes one question the spanner-flinger's competence.

This story really should have been looked at closely by AN before posting up, rather than seizing the opportunity to use it as negative marketing. Perhaps sour grapes about the NOC?

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But why should AN have sour grapes about the NOC?

Surely the Club should have good relationships with Suppliers of parts, after all they are the Life-blood of the Motorcycle restoration and repair business and essential to Norton hobbyists!

And if one supplier steps out of line you as a Club distance yourself from them, it is a common sense strategy!

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John, did you not read Joe's earlier postings?

"Andover Norton has, over the last ten years, offered to supply the Club Spares Scheme again and again. Nothing ever came of it bar the purchase of a handful of rotary parts for a spares scheme administrator"

I have to say that I find this worrying as Andover Norton are the prime manufacturers of genuine Norton parts. I would expect that the bulk of new spares, where available, would be purchased form them by the NOC.

Previously john_hall1 wrote:

But why should AN have sour grapes about the NOC?

Surely the Club should have good relationships with Suppliers of parts, after all they are the Life-blood of the Motorcycle restoration and repair business and essential to Norton hobbyists!

And if one supplier steps out of line you as a Club distance yourself from them, it is a common sense strategy!

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There are a few baffling threads here.

I've no idea why the spares scheme should buy from dealers. They choose what they wish to supply and, mostly,we benefit. There's surely no reason why NOC should attempt to replicate what they do, is there? It's not in our interests (or our suppliers' interests)- to compete with (or under-cut) our main suppliers.

I assumed the spares scheme was a way to provide things the dealers cannot or will not do. Such as member to member sales, re-cycling old stock (e.g. from deceased members and their Estates), and (most important perhaps) procuring vital parts that are non-existent in the market.

How any of this can be done voluntarily is a mystery to me, and (however the scheme really does operate) I think we all owe a vote of thanks and gratitude for those who operate it.

If any of us thinks we could do better - let's step up! I'm sure our services would be very welcome!

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Since AN have no intention of supplying 50's singles parts, I'm not entirely sure we have the full picture. And it won't solve the lack of spares problem, unless Commando's are all that matters.

Something not right in the spares department and the EC are keeping a very low profile here.

What would be reassuring would be to draw up a list of unobtainables by priority and a date when supplies might be available. It might even be advisable to limit one 'unit' per member to prevent hoarding.

Two pistons for a twin would be regarded as one unit.

Somehow I doubt anything will happen.

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I see Lawrence at RGM has sent out a nice little news letter, updating on new products, including plunger rear suspension parts. They are looking at older models, clearly. There would appear to be not much point in our spares scheme stocking parts from main suppliers, when they can be purchased direct from the very same suppliers / manufacturers.

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Members should take care before immediately taking sides against the club spares scheme without giving the matter some thought. Perhaps firstly we should ask âWhat is a âgenuineâ spare part? Andover Norton spares can no longer be branded âNortonâ spares as the name is now licensed by Stuart Garner and Norton Motorcycles Ltd. Although AN hold a number of original drawings of Norton parts, they are not alone in doing so and their list of drawings is by no means comprehensive. Frankly for a spare part to be marketed as a âgenuineâ spare, some 50 years after the original design is perhaps being optimistic. Iâd suggest that quality and value are much more important issues?

Now we come to the defamatory statement regarding the clubâs spares scheme - the NOC does market a small number of Commando spares. Frankly we have never attempted to compete with the major suppliers as the Commando parts marketplace has been pretty robust. That said, we are required by our constitution to help ensure the supply of spares to our members and maintaining the spares scheme is an important part of that. In my earlier post I didnât state that AN had sold the spares to Norvil - merely that the spares had originated there. What seems likely is that if there was a quality problem, the club may not have had the opportunity to resolve it with the member. It was wrong however for Andover Norton to infer that the Club sells poor quality and non âgenuineâ parts.

That the club has not chosen to purchase spares from Andover Norton has much more to do with Mr Seifertâs pricing than his quality which is generally acceptable. Just as Joe maintains his membership of the club so do many NOC members purchase his spare parts. I for one am not looking to escalate this disagreement into something which could endanger either.

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Previously Peter White wrote:

Members should take care before immediately taking sides against the club spares scheme without giving the matter some thought. Perhaps firstly we should ask âWhat is a âgenuineâ spare part? Andover Norton spares can no longer be branded âNortonâ spares as the name is now licensed by Stuart Garner and Norton Motorcycles Ltd. Although AN hold a number of original drawings of Norton parts, they are not alone in doing so and their list of drawings is by no means comprehensive. Frankly for a spare part to be marketed as a âgenuineâ spare, some 50 years after the original design is perhaps being optimistic. Iâd suggest that quality and value are much more important issues?

Now we come to the defamatory statement regarding the clubâs spares scheme - the NOC does market a small number of Commando spares. Frankly we have never attempted to compete with the major suppliers as the Commando parts marketplace has been pretty robust. That said, we are required by our constitution to help ensure the supply of spares to our members and maintaining the spares scheme is an important part of that. In my earlier post I didnât state that AN had sold the spares to Norvil - merely that the spares had originated there. What seems likely is that if there was a quality problem, the club may not have had the opportunity to resolve it with the member. It was wrong however for Andover Norton to infer that the Club sells poor quality and non âgenuineâ parts.

That the club has not chosen to purchase spares from Andover Norton has much more to do with Mr Seifertâs pricing than his quality which is generally acceptable. Just as Joe maintains his membership of the club so do many NOC members purchase his spare parts. I for one am not looking to escalate this disagreement into something which could endanger either.

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Previously lionel_yexley wrote:

John, did you not read Joe's earlier postings?

"Andover Norton has, over the last ten years, offered to supply the Club Spares Scheme again and again. Nothing ever came of it bar the purchase of a handful of rotary parts for a spares scheme administrator"

I have to say that I find this worrying as Andover Norton are the prime manufacturers of genuine Norton parts. I would expect that the bulk of new spares, where available, would be purchased form them by the NOC.

Previously john_hall1 wrote:

But why should AN have sour grapes about the NOC?

Surely the Club should have good relationships with Suppliers of parts, after all they are the Life-blood of the Motorcycle restoration and repair business and essential to Norton hobbyists!

And if one supplier steps out of line you as a Club distance yourself from them, it is a common sense strategy!

Hi, yes i did read the post, but someone put about "sour grapes" and I was just wondering why AN in particular felt aggrieved more than anyone else and probably missed the point, that they are the main manufacturers of Norton parts. Plus aren't they the relics of the original Norton Company!

What I find as disturbing is this Nomenclature war!

Molnar owns the word "Manx";

Stuart Garner, the name Norton;

Les Emery the word Commando;

Honda stole Dominator for one of their models!

Featherbed anyone?

The Legal profession must be laughing their socks off, it is almost fitting for a Monty Python spoof!

Why doesn't all the interested entangled parties settled their differences, form one company with different divisions rights and share of ownership, returns and ensure the shared brand's survival?

Cheers

John H

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Peter, none of this addresses the problem of none available parts. As already stated and I can confirm from a conversation from Roger; that RGM are having a real go at addressing the problem of obsolete parts.

Again, what is the club doing to supply none available parts? Where are we with this? Batches of which parts are being commissioned? Or is there a big fat 0 in the pipeline? Some of us need to know.

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Previously Peter White wrote:

Members should take care before immediately taking sides against the club spares scheme without giving the matter some thought. Perhaps firstly we should ask âWhat is a âgenuineâ spare part? Andover Norton spares can no longer be branded âNortonâ spares as the name is now licensed by Stuart Garner and Norton Motorcycles Ltd. Although AN hold a number of original drawings of Norton parts, they are not alone in doing so and their list of drawings is by no means comprehensive. Frankly for a spare part to be marketed as a âgenuineâ spare, some 50 years after the original design is perhaps being optimistic. Iâd suggest that quality and value are much more important issues?

Perhaps Peter could be so kind- his personal animosity aside- to stick to the facts.

- Andover Norton was granted the intellectual property on everything Norton pre-2002 in an exclusive license contract that was underwritten by the then owners of the Norton trademark, Kenny Dreer's "Norton America".

- So, yes, in spite of the fact the promised exclusivity is not policed let alone enforced by Mr Garner our spares are the genuine article and nobody elses can rightly and by law be called this.

- We have not taken any legal steps against the violation of the contract because we believe a lot of the problems will go away with the passage of time. Having been part of the Norton scene for four decades I have seen a lot of people come and as many go.

- We are paying a license fee every quarter and are being invoiced by Mr Garner's company for it. So if anybody should have doubts we are quite happy to show the relevant passages of the contracts and the invoices.

Joe/Andover Norton

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Surely the stupid trade name thing was first kicked-off by Fairy Spires trying to stop Mick Hemmings referring to his PR parts as Norvil, despite the fact that Mick had been making them since the race shop stopped, we all knew what he meant and were damned pleased he was doing it.

To my mind, Andover Norton have an unbroken history of supplying ex-factory and then newly made stock and are the true successors to the last proper motorcycle factory that could be called 'Norton'. Anything since has simply been pastiche and brand-trading.

It's great that Roger Myers is manufacturing obscure parts, presumably backed up by the economies of scale produced by large sales of the more common stuff. I suspect that this is what the NOC scheme has been trying to do as well...but they're damned if they do sell the common stuff and damned if they don't....and if I read once more about how hard it is to find engine plates for an obscure 50s swing-arm single, I shall probably hang a picture of one up as a dart board !

No-one who has a problem with hard to find parts should really be running, let alone restoring a sixty-year old motorcycle. It's part of the fun, surely ?

By the way, wasn't the Commando name and letter font pinched from James ?

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Previously richard_payne wrote:

Surely the stupid trade name thing was first kicked-off by Fairy Spires trying to stop Mick Hemmings referring to his PR parts as Norvil, despite the fact that Mick had been making them since the race shop stopped, we all knew what he meant and were damned pleased he was doing it.

To my mind, Andover Norton have an unbroken history of supplying ex-factory and then newly made stock and are the true successors to the last proper motorcycle factory that could be called 'Norton'. Anything since has simply been pastiche and brand-trading.

It's great that Roger Myers is manufacturing obscure parts, presumably backed up by the economies of scale produced by large sales of the more common stuff. I suspect that this is what the NOC scheme has been trying to do as well...but they're damned if they do sell the common stuff and damned if they don't....and if I read once more about how hard it is to find engine plates for an obscure 50s swing-arm single, I shall probably hang a picture of one up as a dart board !

No-one who has a problem with hard to find parts should really be running, let alone restoring a sixty-year old motorcycle. It's part of the fun, surely ?

By the way, wasn't the Commando name and letter font pinched from James ?

Richard,

I have always rated your knowledge on the WD 16H but in this season of Peace on Earth and Good Will to all Men, your comment about none available 50's engine plates was directed at me and was of no help whatsoever! I therefore suggest you take up dart throwing. Waiting eight years before a kind member from Australia had some made (X2 sets and the other set I donated to the club as a template) was not a part of any fun, I assure you!

I have spoken to Roger at RGM and he is more interested in supplying all part to keep Norton's on the road than making a profit from this part of his operation. But surely this is the role of the club and such comments from you, Richard and your backers do not help in improving the spares situation from NOC.

Divided we fail.

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I understand you having mentioned your plates, Neil but it does seem to me that you take any and every opportunity to mention them and berate the NOC and the Spares scheme. I think that perhaps they should be cut a bit of slack as well.

That said, I feel that communication from the EC and the Spares Admin could be better. Someone must have, I'd hope, given the items serious consideration and if they felt that the costs balanced against likely demand didn't warrant it, then it wouldn't hurt to say that.

I know from my EC days though that whenever there was a proposal to spend money, there would be a small but vociferous minority insisting that any expenditure had to benefit 'the whole membership' which of course is not always possible but imagine the outcry if they commissioned a batch of parts costing several thousand pounds and had only sold two three years later.

I was certainly not intending to cast doubts on RGM's motivation but it must be far easier to commission small batches if you're a succesful business with a decent turnover and regular orders with suppliers.

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I have always thought the spares for the 50's singles are quite well catered for, and the spares scheme have always been fine by me. I get a little tired of hearing people sitting in the wings complaining about the work of volunteers, constructive criticism is one thing but the regular engine plate rants go beyond that. I have a 1938 Triumph single and trust me, the NOC do very well for the single owners compared to the Triumph OC.

As Skip says, sometime the onus is on us to get these things underway.

It sounds like you've finally got a set of engine plates so that's great. But what did you really do in the last 8 years to make it happen other than get on at the spares team?

Next time you want some engine plates try one of these two:

https://www.lasermaster.co.uk/?SID=1n15881fahs142avm4gj5t3sd2

http://cirruslaser.co.uk/

I've used both to have small batches of parts made. They are very good a reasonably priced. They will both make one offs but it is definitely cheaper to have a batch of something made. I'm quite fortunate in that I can do a CAD drawing and email it to them to be uploaded directly into the machine, but they will work from hand drawings (if they contain all the required information) and they can copy patterns into the machine.

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surprise

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Previously Andy Marks wrote:

I have always thought the spares for the 50's singles are quite well catered for, and the spares scheme have always been fine by me. I get a little tired of hearing people sitting in the wings complaining about the work of volunteers, constructive criticism is one thing but the regular engine plate rants go beyond that. I have a 1938 Triumph single and trust me, the NOC do very well for the single owners compared to the Triumph OC.

As Skip says, sometime the onus is on us to get these things underway.

It sounds like you've finally got a set of engine plates so that's great. But what did you really do in the last 8 years to make it happen other than get on at the spares team?

Next time you want some engine plates try one of these two:

https://www.lasermaster.co.uk/?SID=1n15881fahs142avm4gj5t3sd2

http://cirruslaser.co.uk/

I've used both to have small batches of parts made. They are very good a reasonably priced. They will both make one offs but it is definitely cheaper to have a batch of something made. I'm quite fortunate in that I can do a CAD drawing and email it to them to be uploaded directly into the machine, but they will work from hand drawings (if they contain all the required information) and they can copy patterns into the machine.

Thank you for your response, Richard. The point is that RGM are willing to take on production of much needed spares even at a loss to benefit owners. Thinking about it, this means that they will be able to also sell general stock because we can either put the machine on the road or continue with the project. A Win Win. But you were spot on to question why the EC has not communicated why certain spares have not been made available? And if it is a case that production would not benefit everyone, that is a given. I'll bet you can count on one hand members who have an example of every model.

Andy, unlike RGM the NOC is in a fortunate position that it does not depend on profits to stay afloat, they have our subscriptions and depend on keeping member numbers. I don't know what Tr**mph singles have to do with this, that is an issue for another club!

I managed to obtain the drawings for these blessed plates in question from Dale Middlehurst, (Thank you Dale)I posted them to NOC spares but they said they needed an example in metal. (Thanks to a member in Australia who I visited earlier this year, I supplied them with their own accurate template) A couple of members were also sent a copy of the drawings on request, but the trail came to nothing. I tried to get them cut by local engineering, without success. And now you come forward with suggestions years later!!! Where were you when I needed help? Have you suggested your services to the NOC OR your two engineering solution suggestions that would have been appreciated long since. We still need banjo's for singles! Again, I don't find your comments helping improve an unsatisfactory service.

Since you mentioned Skip, I am grateful to him obtaining a part for sale in the US of A, a part I have never seen for sale since. Had I never taken on this project 11 almost 12 years ago I would probably never known the dire situation of none Dominator / Commando spares. (I can't speak for Inters, L/W Twins and Rotaries but one can build a brand new Manx today!)

Oh and talking about sitting in the wings: I had to bring back a rear mudguard (Wideline) and a headlamp shell from New Zealand with me.

I can now see why no progress is being made. Merry Christmas.

Rant indeed!

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I must say having followed this that engine plates are hardly difficult things to make. A hacksaw, files and drill should be enough to create something which may not be perfect to within a couple of thou but certainly would serve their purpose.Even if you don't have originals, all you need is the bolt spacing to make reasonable items. I'm sure any NOC member with a similar machine would supply the measurements if asked - I certainly would.

Those links posted by Andy are very handy as well and I've bookmarked them for any future reference.

The things that are difficult are the sheet metal items which we all chucked away in the 1970s. For example, my 1952 ES2 has a single piece rear mudguard rather than the 2-piece one it should have. It would be nice to have an original but I'm confident I can recreate the 2 piece part by judicious cutting and welding.

If I ever get round to it of course......

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May be we should look at how other Clubs manage their Inventory, Manufacturing allocation Spares Scheme! Knowledge in this area, providers and contacts should be pooled!

Example:

"Happily for Doug, the Vincent Owners' Club maintains a full supply of components so all the engine spares came straight off the shelf." I suppose that the advantage of having fewer models and engine types!

I suppose BSA would be the nearest Norton equivalent in models and engine types or perhaps they had an even greater range to cater for?

What's the situation with Triumph, Royal Enfield are there any cross-overs in parts that fit machines across the British Manufacturing spectrum? Especially for gearboxes, sprockets, brake shoes...Smiths equipment.

Sometimes I think the "British Only" Spares Scheme, umbrella organisation. would/should exist and run the whole show for all the independent Clubs, unsure what the VMCC role is any more since Titch Allen died!

Cheers

John H

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Previously Neil Wyatt wrote:

Previously Andy Marks wrote:

I have always thought the spares for the 50's singles are quite well catered for, and the spares scheme have always been fine by me. I get a little tired of hearing people sitting in the wings complaining about the work of volunteers, constructive criticism is one thing but the regular engine plate rants go beyond that. I have a 1938 Triumph single and trust me, the NOC do very well for the single owners compared to the Triumph OC.

As Skip says, sometime the onus is on us to get these things underway.

It sounds like you've finally got a set of engine plates so that's great. But what did you really do in the last 8 years to make it happen other than get on at the spares team?

Next time you want some engine plates try one of these two:

https://www.lasermaster.co.uk/?SID=1n15881fahs142avm4gj5t3sd2

http://cirruslaser.co.uk/

I've used both to have small batches of parts made. They are very good a reasonably priced. They will both make one offs but it is definitely cheaper to have a batch of something made. I'm quite fortunate in that I can do a CAD drawing and email it to them to be uploaded directly into the machine, but they will work from hand drawings (if they contain all the required information) and they can copy patterns into the machine.

Thank you for your response, Richard. The point is that RGM are willing to take on production of much needed spares even at a loss to benefit owners. Thinking about it, this means that they will be able to also sell general stock because we can either put the machine on the road or continue with the project. A Win Win. But you were spot on to question why the EC has not communicated why certain spares have not been made available? And if it is a case that production would not benefit everyone, that is a given. I'll bet you can count on one hand members who have an example of every model.

Andy, unlike RGM the NOC is in a fortunate position that it does not depend on profits to stay afloat, they have our subscriptions and depend on keeping member numbers. I don't know what Tr**mph singles have to do with this, that is an issue for another club!

I managed to obtain the drawings for these blessed plates in question from Dale Middlehurst, (Thank you Dale)I posted them to NOC spares but they said they needed an example in metal. (Thanks to a member in Australia who I visited earlier this year, I supplied them with their own accurate template) A couple of members were also sent a copy of the drawings on request, but the trail came to nothing. I tried to get them cut by local engineering, without success. And now you come forward with suggestions years later!!! Where were you when I needed help? Have you suggested your services to the NOC OR your two engineering solution suggestions that would have been appreciated long since. We still need banjo's for singles! Again, I don't find your comments helping improve an unsatisfactory service.

Since you mentioned Skip, I am grateful to him obtaining a part for sale in the US of A, a part I have never seen for sale since. Had I never taken on this project 11 almost 12 years ago I would probably never known the dire situation of none Dominator / Commando spares. (I can't speak for Inters, L/W Twins and Rotaries but one can build a brand new Manx today!)

Oh and talking about sitting in the wings: I had to bring back a rear mudguard (Wideline) and a headlamp shell from New Zealand with me.

I can now see why no progress is being made. Merry Christmas.

Rant indeed!

Hi Neil

Dare I suggest that if you sent the drawings you had to the NOC, a couple of members AND took them into a local engineering company and none of them could help maybe the drawings weren't detailed enough? Working in engineering I know how easy it is to miss a couple of key dimensions off and the drawing is of no use. Not many engineers would want to work from a drawing unless they where confident they could make the part properly, regardless of who's at fault it invariably comes back to bite them in the ass.

To me trying to source these parts, or having them made, is all part of the fun. If you want to be able to buy the parts straight off the shelf stick to a featherbed framed machine or a Commando.

Don't start having a go at the rest of us for not helping you enough. It's posts like this that generally keep me off the forum now, and I know I'm no the only one. I was trying to be helpful with a couple of suggestions for anyone having a similar issue in the future and I get asked 'where were you' and told I'm not being helpful. I'd suggest if you want help from fellow members in the future think before typing now.

Andy

PS - Who needed banjos? Could something like this be made to fit?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/391853660626?ul_noapp=true

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Andy,

Let's first remember we are in the season of good will to all men.

This pre f/bed project has been a lesson to me but not to NOC spares and a few members, it would appear. I can't speak for you but 8 years before I could even get started is simply not good enough. The drawings were 1-1 and the club were not interested (They now have the spare set made, hopefully to use as a template)

What you are saying is: stick to Commando or F/bed models because otherwise you might struggle for parts. Yes indeed, I can confirm that and it is here the club should come in with a list (Not silence) saying this is what we are having made and the next batch will include??? What else do our members require that can't be purchased from dealers?

It is about keeping Norton's on the road, not a treasure hunt that might not get concluded!

Are we a Norton Club or just a a Commando and Featherbed club?

Make your mind up time? Merry Christmas.

 

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