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New Member +Rough Idle & Control Levers

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Hi everyone,

I've recently joined the club and looking forward to getting to know people, as lockdown easing permits!

I have a Mk3 1975 Commando. Only a recent purchase. I've managed to get a few miles in and have some problems adjusting to the clutch and brake levers. I've fairly average hands, but the front brake lever is quite a stretch, action is fine, but distance is odd. Anyone suffered and solved the same?

The clutch was incredibly stiff, so I freed the top end of the cable and lubed it, which made the difference. However, I'm unsure about the right adjustment. I put the lever/cable adjuster back to the point it was originally, but it was causing the clutch to slip. I've gradually loosened it off until that no longer happens. I've read about 3/16ths free play at the lever, but I can't see what I would be measuring. There is currently no play on the outer sheath when i try to pull it away from the lever. There is perhaps, a bit of clutch lever movement before i detect resistance, but not much and I'm not sure how i would measure that? Any advice plse.

My bike was completely (professionally) restored in 2013. Extensive (122) photos and timesheets. Completely stripped and renovated cases, +20 thou rebore/piston, new carbs (now a single 34 Amal), head, frame and cycle parts. New loom etc. It looks to have been well done done with Norvil and RGM parts lists. Alternator and starter are upgraded, as are front brakes (AP calliper and self centering disc). However, since then it has only done 3,200 miles. So I'm expecting teething troubles. Oils have been changed, tyres are 2012, so will be changed.  Battery is charging fine, so far. It rides well and vibration free, with no swingarm play. It hesitates on wide open throttle unless both fuel taps are open? Anything i should pay particular attention to?

Am impressed with the smooth power and handling. Seat could, perhaps, be softer. Happy with my decision!

Thanks,  Martin

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Adjust clutch as per Haynes manual (chapter 3). If that doesn't fix it, try replacing the cable with a teflon lined one (Venhill are ok) and ensure it's routed without any nasty kinks. Don't oil lined cables unless manufacturer advises otherwise; oil can cause the lining to swell and make things worse.

Brake lever reach is what it is but sometimes they've been bent when the bike was dropped; best check against someone elses.

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It hesitates on wide open throttle unless both fuel taps are open? Anything i should pay particular attention to?

The petrol taps have internal filters on top inside the tank, which on rusting tanks or tanks that have been de-rusted but not fully cleared clog up, clear the filters after emptying the tank of fuel and removing tank. You can take the tank off with some fuel in it and by setting it at an angle take one tap out, then reangle for the second tap.

Also some taps have internal rubbers which in long term contact with ethanol swell and the central hole closes up, drill new holes but longer term get new taps with a brass taper. 

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Thanks for your replies. I have the workshop manual, not Haynes. Is it worth having both?

On clutch lever adjustment, the workshop manual says:

C35.8 "Adjust the clutch cable at the control to provide 3/16" to1/4" free movement between the cable outer and adjuster".

I assume the "control" means the clutch lever on the handlebar? My cable outer has no movement relative to the adjuster (the slotted knurled ring, where the cable enters the lever housing). My clutch lever now has a very small amount of movement, before I feel tension. When I got the bike, it was set with the adjuster 2/3rds in. This caused clutch slip at higher loads. I unscrewed the adjuster, so It is now half way in and doesn't slip. Still a little stiff, but I don't know if that's normal. 

Do I need to remove the tank? Is it OK to leave it on, disconnect the fuel lines at the tap and empty it through the taps, before removing each tap to check them? Will I need new sealing washers, or ok to re-use?

Thanks, Martin

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One of the taps is the main, this has a stand pipe to hold back some fuel, as soon as you unscrew it then this reserve fuel will pour out. Always assume dealing washers will need replacing or it's a 2 day wait for parts, if not needed now they will do in the future.

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If you have the proper NVT manual it's far better than Haynes. What is also useful is the NOC Commando Service Notes - not sure if this is still available from the club?

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Section C35 of the workshop manual  has an 8 step procedure that you should follow.

Properly adjusted, the clutch lever is initially heavy and then, after a short movement it "snaps over" and becomes quite light - the characteristic of a diaphragm clutch. If it's still not right, after adjusting as outlined and replacing/ rerouting the cable if required, then you'll have to dig a little deeper.

The Commando clutch is very good when setup correctly but still a little heavier than a CBR600, say.

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The pictures in the Haynes manual may be helpful, but otherwise its advice should be viewed with reserve—some of the errors are distinctly unhelpful.

There is lots of useful documentation on the Facebook Norton Commando group pages: https://www.facebook.com/groups/10302209470/files.

Our own NOC Service Notes are perhaps a little dated now; the U.S. club's service notes are slightly less dated and also a valuable resource. I haven't looked to see if they are still available from the NOC shop.

Also available from the NOC shop are four excellent strip-and-rebuild videos for engine and gearbox, one of each from Mick Hemmings and John Hudson. Both are noted Norton gurus; Mick's videos are somewhat better picture and sound quality.

On clutch adjustment: Norton Commando and Velocette clutches are completely unlike in every possible way except one: you will not get it right unless you make sure that you fully understand their construction, and follow the factory instructions to the letter. 

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Things seem to be going south! The hesitation problem has worsened.

The petrol tank looks ok. Tap filters are clean. They empty with a steady stream, not a gush, not a trickle. I did 80 miles yesterday. The bike hesitated a couple of times early on and cleared and ran well. It stalled 5 miles from home on tick-over, then ran fine again.

Today, I thought I'd warm it up to adjust the idle (Amal 34mm single carb). It was lumpy warming up on the drive, than stalled as I changed from 1st to 2nd (100yds in). Restarted, but wouldn't tickover without throttle, so I turned round. Stalled again when I pulled in. Wouldn't restart. Plus, one backfire, when starter motor was turning over. Nearly fell over at that! Went for a cuppa and regathered.

The plugs were both sooty. I cleaned them and set at 25thou. I adjusted the idle (throttle adjuster screw) and it restarted ticking over at 2000rpm. Adjusted the pilot air screw and it increased revs and ran smoothly.  I reduced the idle revs, but it gets uneven below about 2000rpm and stalls below 1700rpm, even with the pilot air screw out 9 turns. The engine was warm by this point.

The air filter (RGM K&N style) looks clean enough. The carb to intake rubber seal looks tight and sound. I have a very slight leak (light puff at each pulse) at the LH exhaust header, which is as tight as it will go. No fuel leaks.

Dirty / blocked carb? Any other suggestions / any wisdom and where to start, gratefully received. I did forget to turn on the fuel taps a couple if times yesterday. It ran, coughed and stopped. I also started yesterdays run forgetting to turn the choke off, until 4 miles in. Could these have caused any problems?

Appreciate any help.

Thanks, Martin

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What ignition has it been fitted with? is the single amal new or old (as in manufactured back in the seventies)

When you bought the bike did you take someone experienced with these bikes to look it over for you/ test ride it? if its got 3200 miles on it since being put together any running issues should have been sorted by now. Although it could have been stood for seven of the eight years since it was 'restored'

Photos would be good, Does it have the correct brake lever on the handlebars? early levers will fit Mk3 mastercylinders but need hands like a giant. As would early master cylinders fitted to Mk3 switch gear (even more gianter hands needed!) Look on the AN website, at the photos of the brake levers and it will be obvious which one is fitted.

Is the clutch lever in the gearbox correctly aligned with the cable entry?

The clutch will slip if giving it loads at 90mph plus, can be cured, mod outlined in the service notes 

How old is the battery?

What else has it been fitted with? belt drive? A real No-No on a Mk3 

Professionally restored is no guarantee the work was done correctly and what has happened in the eight years since it was restored? How old are the tyres?

I have had to correct faults on a Mk3 that had been through a 'professionals' hands 

More information needed.  

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It has Boyer ignition, not sure of model. Reference to fitting new Boyer pick ups in 2013. The Amal is a 2900 34mm mk2 (model 2934), fitted new in 2013 (from RGM). It had a replacement pilot jet (20) and cold start plunger last year.  It has a 106 needle jet, 3.5 slide, 2A1 needle, on 3rd mid position, 280 main jet, 20 pilot jet (originally a 15), 50 choke jet, K&N RC-1900 air filter (57mm round). A range of jets and settings were tried in a table showing results. So, I think this was a suitable set up. HT leads (wire type) replaced last year. Timing checked Dec 2019.

Test ride was short from cold and OK. I don't know anyone with Norton knowledge. I relied on my own experience.

The mileage has been steady at 150 to 500 miles p.a., so stood most of its recent life. It has an RGM brake disc, calliper and hydraulic 'upgrade' installed, which may have affected the position of the lever to the bars. Interesting the pre-mk3 levers are different, it has a slightly different profile to the clutch lever. I will look into it.

Clutch: I haven't looked inside the case, the cable enters the case in the right line and has smooth curves back to the lever. Lubrication has helped, and adjustment at the lever. It is acceptable now. I think the diaphragm effect was new to me and felt wrong, initially. It did not slip on Monday and gear selection was easy. Hoping that one's sorted. Don't plan on 90mph plus.

Battery is coming up to 4 years. Taking charge fine on my tender.

Not belt drive, has a Boyer Bransdon powerbox (12v, single phase).

Tyres are 2012 Dunlop TT100s. I quite like their feel, so will go with the same. I will replace as early priority in the next couple of weeks, as soon as I can trust it to get me there. No signs of rubber deterioration, rear a little squared off.

I've experienced good and bad workmanship in the past. The records of their work runs to 40 odd pages + parts receipts and 122 photos. Suggests some care and knowledge.

Hope this helps? Appreciate your assistance.

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Just to close this out. Having flushed the tank, cleaned the carb and fresh jets, still not running. Re-checked the plugs, no spark from one of them. Replaced both and it starts fine and warmed up, adjusted the air screw and idle. I've got it ticking over smoothly at 1100 to 1200 rpm. Happy!

Needs a test ride. :-)

 


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