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Just installed my shiny new exhuast system on my Roadster.  Thought I'd give her a kick and listen to the tone.  On the second kick I heard a crunching sound, definitely metal to metal.  This is what I found.  Looks like the kick starter shaft failed at the spring hole and caused a collapse which also wrecked the outer cover bearing and boss.

Is this something that happens?  What else should I consider when I am repairing this mess?

Failed kickstart shaft

Inner cover view

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I've never seen that with an OE shaft and the distortion to the splines is suspicious too. The only common fault I think is a crack from the stress raiser on the internal quadrant to the drilling for the pawl pivot pin but I've never known it to be fatal.

Do you know who the supplier was ?

In reply to by richard_payne

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TBH I have limited history of the bike. It is Jan ‘72 but has a combat engine with 14k miles and was originally exported to the USA with the fibreglass tank etc. Last year it was brought home as a none runner, according to plates last registered in ‘79 for road use. Apart from louder exhaust she was standard. So assuming  she is standard. Oh and the kickstarter pedal was a dog to get off, maybe didn’t help. 

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Looks like its been made from steel coloured cheese.

Buying bikes as non runners is fraught with problems like this. It really is the luck of the draw. Unknown service history... For peace of mind, I would be tempted to do a full engine and gearbox strip to check that there isn't anything else waiting to let go. You really don't want a seizure, gearbox lockup etc when travelling at speed.  

Thanks tbh I am on the cusp of that. Pretty much every other assembly has been rebuilt; hubs, folks, brakes & hydraulics, electrics, clutch, carbs etc.. 

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Not the first I have seen them fail like this. Another batch of these was seen earlier this year, it seems they run in a 3 year cycle, I get the odd one sent to me. Not sure where they are coming from, but have many deficiencies which easily gives them away. Just from looking at the photo I can see it is fake, not even a good copy. Most crack in the pawl area. 

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there is a lot of history about sub-standard parts on here and accessnorton. Usually, it comes down to buying from very few reputable sources, and even then , there are personal preferences over particular items.

   In general, it seems there are more badly made/specced items around on  other websites, which are cheaper to buy initially.......

 

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Despite knowing the faults, we no longer highlight them as this effectively gives away how to make them. Not one company in the world lets their competitors know how to make items correctly, not even if they are deadly, as one NOC owner found out a couple of years ago.

I even watched the trail of them being made after our stock was slated for not being correct. It was not even a challenging item to manufacture, had they also tested a part from any of the leading global suppliers of these parts that are used on other motorcycles they would have spotted the error they could have avoided. 

 

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Ashley:

So, rather that letting the Norton parts buying public know that the various suppliers are putting forward some sub-standard parts, you would rather let the public suffer the consequences?

Or, if you put forward a notification about a sub-standard part being marketed, are you afraid of being sued?  The truth of your statements will always be a justification, right?

Mike 

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The public knows that sub-standard parts are being supplied and they continue to buy them.  Forty years ago, we had no choice. NVT had let us down. Wassell and Harris were supplying goods that I wouldn't have used had there been any choice and a dealer in the midlands was punting out reject bin scrap. Plus ça change...

Even in the pre-internet closed market 1970s, at a time when local authority Trading standards still existed in more than name only, it proved impossible to protect idiots against themselves.

The buyer has to do his own research, and I know who I trust.

I sympathise with Ashley's, or rather AN's, predicament.

On the one hand, keep silent about known defects in competitors' products.

On the other, perform a public service at the cost of inviting an action for defamation that would be expensive even if eventually defended successfully.

If I was running a business I fear I know which option I would choose.

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I managed to split the gearbox further, looking at the state on the gaskets and what it took to break the seal I reckon everything was still OE. Generally speaking the internals are in good shape apart from 1st and 2nd gear where there is some pitting where the teeth mesh, I will replace these.  The inner cover is also damaged from the kick start shaft failure, I am reluctant to replace circa £160+VAT just wondering if anyone has had such weld repaired and remachined/pressed insert, and if this is economically viable?

Gearbox open

Problem item
Problem item...notice that the came with it.

1st gear2nd gear

Inside inner gearbox cover
Opinions on repairability? 

 

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New roller bearing19t gearFinally rebuilt the gearbox. We are really fortunate that there’s so much information available to do this kind of work correctly.  All sorted

Inner box

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Good job and photos, well worth the expense, time and effort. I notice you,re using Castrol EP90 to assemble. I went through a phase of trying all the various super slick synthetic, shockproof, Warp Drive gearbox lubricants loved by the Access Norton stalwarts but noting comments on this forum decided to try the old school EP90.

Happiest gearbox to date, neutral easy to find with bike stationary and more tolerant of clutch adjustment. Never been a perfectly precise gear change on my 5 speed rearsets Mk3 but the best overall gear oil used so far

In reply to by neill_watkins

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Yes I stuck with the original EP90 since general condition of the gears were good, and I already had a fresh tin at home!  I found someone that would repair the inner cover but invested in a new one from ANIL since I didnt want to take the risk not knowing the original dimensions.  However I was a bit dissapointed that the new part quality wasnt great.  One dowel was not pressed in enough and the sealing face was not skimmed in one pass by the look of it, resulting in a step (I sorted it myself not worth the hassle).  But I must admit nothing seems to straight forward working on these classics.

machined face

location pins

 

In reply to by neill_watkins

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Neil, I'm interested to know what sort of rearsets you have? Mine are not comfortable and I'm considering a redesign. Any chance of a photo?

Hans

I used Yamaha XJR1200 foot pegs pegs and master cylinder on modified Z plates will email details

 


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