Spoilt by progress (to misquote a famous local brewery)

Forums

Following all the ministrations I've carried out with the Electra, last week I went out to the garage every morning and started the engine using the electric starter - each time it burst into life immediately although I didn't run it for long.

So on Monday I decided to give it a try and rolled out onto the road. Again it started instantly and was performing very nicely - although with an occasional slight miss on acceleration - till I got about 10 miles away when it died at a junction and refused to restart. My days of grovelling around in the gutter being well past I called the breakdown service and settled down to wait. It may be worth mentioning that although the engine was hot the starter whizzed it over valiantly.

What a nice bunch of people live in Little Alne! About 5 minutes after I stopped a lovely lady from a house opposite came across and offered me tea, water and a place to sit. A few minutes later a bloke walked up and offered me the use of hs spanners. Two passing motorcyclists slowed down to check I was OK. Another bloke came across for a chat and to see if he could help - he was restoring a TK Bedford. And yet another arrived just as the breakdown van hove into view. He had a new Enfield and was enjoying it.

Fortuitously there was a pub just across the way so I could enjoy a fortifying half of IPA (although I was short changed as I discovered later). And the breakdown service - Britannia - arrived after about an hour of my calling them. The chap was very careful and efficient.

When I had the bike in the garage I checked it over. Still not starting, although a healthy looking spark, and of course the battery's getting low so that's now on charge. Removing the plugs showed that they were very pale indicating a weak mixture so I've raised the jet needle a notch as that's where most of the running is done. Many people fiddle with main jets but as I rarely use full throttle - and I suspect few others do - as long as it's big enough it can wait till I have the other variables sorted out. I do wonder if the petrol tank breather is not passing enough air but the flow seems reasonable.

And of course the cheap petrol tap I fitted is now leaking so that needs replacing. Never a dull day in sunny Redditch and surrounds.

Really sorry to hear this…

Really sorry to hear this Ian but how encouraging and heart warming to meet such charming people in Little Alne......and perfectly timed to be so close to an ale house for essential sustenance! From what you say it does sound like it might be a fuel starvation issue. You mention the possibility of a fuel cap breather blockage - it's certainly one I have experienced in the past and it took a good few miles to create sufficient vacuum in the tank to make it cut out. If it helps the NOC spares scheme list replacements. If you don't have a Norton manual mine shows that the standard Monbloc 375 uses a 7/8" choke, a 190 main jet, a 105 needle jet, a 25 pilot jet, a No 3 throttle valve, a needle taper B and the needle set in position 4. Mine runs very happily on that combination. Are you still running it on your new Concentric? Sadly I have no knowledge of how to set one up on an Electra so can't help. As for the wretched fuel taps the only one I have found that can be made to work without leaking after years battling with the original Ewarts one with its wretched cork seal is the modern one that is listed in the NOC shop. Sadly it doesn't have a reserve position and it needs the 90 deg adaptor to line pipe up with the carb. A great example of one of those incredibly simple and common things that turns out to be so frustrating and difficult on a Norton lightweight!!! Let us know what the problem turns out to be.

Nick

Thanks Nick...

.. I am tending towards the fuel starvation issue. I did have a map holder on top of the tank which may have obstructed the cap breather to some extent. The other thing that I've thought about is that the tap I have forced the fuel pipe to swep near the cylinder head and I wonder if that was causing fuel vaporisation.

I'm sticking with the concentric clone for the time being as I did struggle to get clean running with the monobloc which was fairly well worn. Although I did say I leave main jet till last, the concentric did come with a smallish jet - 140 I think - so I may well up that just in case.

This is the tap I've ordered from ebay which comes with both main and reserve position:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/226835532991

Not quite original looking but I've used this type before with some success. Here is the Electra in repose. Waiting for the man.....

norton roadside

A man on a Norton broken…

A man on a Norton broken down in Redditch meets a kind man on an Enfield! Ironic.

Hi Ian, having seen the…

Hi Ian, having seen the picture I've made the connection! Some sort of fuel starvation problem sounds plausible if you have discounted the classical Electra low battery voltage / electronic ignition issue that you have so much experience of. The NOC shop has new petrol caps part number 13325 for sale for £27.50 which isn't cheap but they look good quality and original. Thanks for the link to the fuel tap - at that price it is worth a try! Let us know what the fault turns out to be - particularly if it is a typical Norton Lightweight weird and wonderful!!! Better luck on your next ride! Nick

Yes Nick..

.. I prefer to give the likes of FB as little (and false) info as possible!

I have had a look in the carb and the current main jet is a 120 which I think is far too small. I've fitted a 190 which is correct for a monobloc and even if it's a bit big shouldn't be a problem. The trouble is that if it only shows up after 10 miles or so I'll be keeping Britannia busy. I suppose I could just ride 5 miles then turn round and come home. And probably use the free breakdown cover from Peter James if I need it to avoid outstaying my welcome.

Anyway, the tap on its way to me so will see what happens when it's all back together.

I was getting a good spark when I got home although didn't actually try to start the engine.

Always something to keep us entertained isn't there?

I agree with your FB policy…

I agree with your FB policy, very wise. As for the Concentric and main jet I suspect you will only find out by experimenting unless the manufacturer can provide advice based on their experience with setting a Concentric up on an Electra which I rather doubt but happy to be proved wrong. Even if it was running lean I don't think it explains cutting out and refusing to start - that sounds much more like fuel starvation or ignition. Good luck with fault finding - I'm off to fathom out where the open circuit is in the new wiring harness I made for the Navigator using a tried and tested diagram......but drains the battery with the ignition and lights turned off!!!! As you say, something to keep us entertained!!!!

I don't know if it helps,…

I don't know if it helps, but I have a Navigator with an Amal Premier configured as below:-

622/301AL with a 3 1/2 slide, 140 main jet and 105 needle jet

Plus Threaded Cone Filter - 600 Series MK1 Part Number: ABF954

This was configured by the very helpful Phil Beresford from Burlen.
Obviously a slightly smaller engine.

Thanks Tony.

The spec for the monobloc for my Electra lists a 3 slide and 190 main jet - your 140 sounds on the low side. I'm also quite keen on ensuring that the slide is on the rich side as I cured quite bad hesitation on my ES2 by fitting a slide one step richer. I've fitted a 190 main jet to my evo carb which came with a number 3 slide and am waiting for a new tap and fuel hose. I've also opened up the tank cap breather holes as they did seem to be clogged to some extent.

Will report back.

Update

How embarrassing! I took the Electra out for another short run yesterday morning and it stopped a couple of miles from home and wouldn't restart. This time I had some tools with me so popped plugs out and checked it. After a few minutes I tried it again and it started! I was able to get it home before it stopped again.

I have fitted a new petrol tap so thought I would check the flow. There was nothing in the "ON" position, but a steady flow from reserve. The penny has now dropped - I'd effectively run out of petrol but for some reason hadn't tried reserve. When I stopped and put the bike on the prop stand this probably tilted it enough so that enough petrol managed to find its way to the carb to get me home. I expect the same happened in my previous trip - so my partial diagnosis of fuel starvation was effectively correct but for a much more obvious (except to me) reason.

The Electra is now starting at the merest press of the button. I did take the opportunity while the tank was off to try bypassing my auxiliary battery setup and it did start but much less readily so will keep my mod. I look forward to another test run but will wait for better weather.

I should have applied Occam's razor - when there are multiple possible explanations for a phenomenon, the simplest is usually correct. Running out of petrol at my age!

By the way, the starter and its mechanism are working faultlessly whether cold or hot. I think the work I did on that was not wasted.

We've all done it Ian…

We've all done it Ian.......and sooner or later will no doubt do it again! But great to hear you have got to the bottom of the fuel problems and it is starting on the button. Mine is doing the same - it starts within one revolution of the engine without any need for choke or tickling. It goes to show that the Electra starter works perfectly well with a good understanding of the system (a proper diagram and detailed explanation of how the whole starter system works and is assembled in the original owners manual would have been a great help!). Regular, knowledgeable routine maintenance, a decent high output 12v battery (or batteries in my case) and accurately timed electronic ignition the Electra is a reliable starter. On an equally cheerful note after long overdue +0.020" thou rebore, a set of NOS Hepolite pistons, carefully lapped in valves and using Jubillee headgaskets my dear old Navigator started second kick this afternoon and sounds remarkably quiet mechanically, in part due to a set of newly manufactured cam followers and guides masterminded by the heroic Peter Holland! Frustratingly despite a long search through my spares cache I couldn't find a set of the correct length long rocker box Allen bolts. I am waiting for them to arrive from the wonderful NOC Shop team before I can strobe time the engine before final assembly and check over before the first test run.......after a 4 year total rebuild!!! I will report on progress next week......
Drive safe! Nick

Thanks for the kind words Nick.

I had put a gallon in the tank some weeks ago but must have used most of it up with various tests etc not to mention my abortive run on Bank Holiday Monday. The new tap which I think I've mentioned here holds over 2 pints in reserve which is enough to get me 15 miles or so - if of course I remember it's there!

My engine is rattlier than I would like and am used to from Commandos and ES2s but liveable with. The basic mechanics of the bike seem in good order apart from what I consider excessive wet sumping and many and various oil leaks which I've sorted out over the months. It's now almost perfectly dry with a very slight weep from the primary case. As the NOC gasket is a poor fit it broke during my many removals of the outer, which I have also discovered is slightly distorted. I've used silicone - ordinary bathroom type - which is fine in this application as there are no oil ways to block but will probably make my own gasket from flexite in the fullness of time.

I am very happy with my auxiliary battery layout and believe it has put to bed the issue of low voltage at the BB unit when cranking although time will tell. The small auxiliary battery, which fits neatly in the side mounting, only feeds the ignition circuit with the main battery supplying all other functions including lights etc.

Norton Owners Club