Re: Another Unwanted Ethanol Strike

Commiserations Phil. What sort of paint was that? Some seem a bit more resistant to the dreaded ethanol and additives in petrol than others. Enamel paints seem reasonably resistant as does smooth Hammerite.

I think thatâs more than ethanol, that looks like a general paint/petrol reaction to me, there are plenty of additives in petrol that disagree with paint. Not that helps you of course? Might be worth speaking to your sprayer to find out what he used?

I understand that BP do not gaurantee that Ultimate is eth free , However Esso say that their top fuel is eth free. That does not stop rogue independant Garages from cheating.

Ethanol is just alcohol, if it stripped paint like that Iâd never have bought nitromors! (Other paint strippers are available!)

I believe it's the other additives in modern petrol that cause these problems (benzene etc). I don't believe they occurred in the 1950s with Cleveland Discol that had up to 20% ethanol.

I was riding in the 50?s, and Discol was my preferred fuel. You are right, there were no problems then (although Discol had only 10% alcohol, not 20). Benzene is not the reason, "National Benzene"gave no problems either. The most probable cause of "Ethanol Problems" is the changes in materials used today, e.g. in the 50?s most paints were cellulose based, and, modern plastics are "Improved" by a different, and probably cheaper formulas. My Dominator was laid up, after last years International rally, with 3/4 of a tank of 98 fuel (bought in Belgium). Since then, it has been started regularly, once a monththen run until the carb is empty. No clogged jets, no melted plastic float, fuel pipe, or anything else.

I do wonder if it is the paint used. Due to Health and Safety Acrylic paint is geneallyused and personally I think it's rubbish. I buy paint from a local Auto Paint supplier and if an authentic look is required cellulose can be supplied or my preference for its ruggedness - 2 pack paint with which I've had no problems using the regular pump fuel.

Hi Phil, commiserations.......

BP 97 in the "West Country" is not the same as BP 97 elsewhere, so BP say. Does "West" begin at Portsmouth? To my mind, that means it is another company's petrol rebranded and delivered in a BP tanker. You could test the petrol yourself quite easily if you wanted to.

The way the paint has lifted from the underside of the petrol tank does look as if it was never properly etch primed - well that is my guess and I sort of agree with Dan.

But, was the oil tank resprayed black at the same time? That clearly shows a surface effect from the dripping petrol. Ethanol in fuel causes two different problems: 1) increased solvation effect i.e. will attack things like plastics, etc. and 2) absorption of water permitting corrosion. The oil tank is suffering from effect 1) IF it is ethanol. But, it could be a paint that has poor (non-ethanol) petrol resistance.

Do some tests by dripping stuff on what's left of the tank surfaces. You could mix 5% meths or 10% vodka in some Esso best petrol to be sure you have an ethanol containing fuel, and compare that with pure Esso best.

Hi Phil

I think you are correct in your view that you are suffering an ethanol attack, what with two different paint systems both being affected. It is (scientifically) interesting that ethanol in petrol produces such a potent paint attacker. It is known that a mixture of polar (e.g. ethanol) and non-polar (e.g. hydrocarbon) solvents produces a powerful solvent effect that the individual solvents do not display on their own.

Yes, the fuel station people have no idea what is being sold. That is deliberate company policy. The only reason ethanol is added is because legislation requires a certain percentage sold by that company to contain ethanol. It is more expensive than the oil based hydrocarbon, so it is in their financial interest to limit its use to 'just what is required". Hence we can buy BP97 without ethanol, but only from certain refineries. BP sell fuel in the West Country and Scotland/NE England that has been refined/blended by someone else is what I guess. All the fuel companies sell other's fuel re-badged when they can save on transport costs.

It is the case that to cope with ethanol in fuel you need a stainless and suitable rubber system. Interesting that even a new 961 suffered! Our Amals with alloy and brass will not cope with it, which is why I drain and dry them before winter. I will also keep buying BP97 (or Esso) as long as it remains ethanol free.

Oh, I just bought and tested some BP97 from the East Midlands today and it had no ethanol.

Norm.

Previously norman_lorton wrote:

Hi Phil

I think you are correct in your view that you are suffering an ethanol attack, what with two different paint systems both being affected. It is (scientifically) interesting that ethanol in petrol produces such a potent paint attacker. It is known that a mixture of polar (e.g. ethanol) and non-polar (e.g. hydrocarbon) solvents produces a powerful solvent effect that the individual solvents do not display on their own.

Yes, the fuel station people have no idea what is being sold. That is deliberate company policy. The only reason ethanol is added is because legislation requires a certain percentage sold by that company to contain ethanol. It is more expensive than the oil based hydrocarbon, so it is in their financial interest to limit its use to 'just what is required". Hence we can buy BP97 without ethanol, but only from certain refineries. BP sell fuel in the West Country and Scotland/NE England that has been refined/blended by someone else is what I guess. All the fuel companies sell other's fuel re-badged when they can save on transport costs.

It is the case that to cope with ethanol in fuel you need a stainless and suitable rubber system. Interesting that even a new 961 suffered! Our Amals with alloy and brass will not cope with it, which is why I drain and dry them before winter. I will also keep buying BP97 (or Esso) as long as it remains ethanol free.

Oh, I just bought and tested some BP97 from the East Midlands today and it had no ethanol.

Norm.

Hello for what this is worth the big oil companies have us all by the whats its, and now 70% of all petrol is made from palm oil or sugar cane the Palm oil is killing wild life as they cut down forests this is oil company greed and then there is the EU dictators that want everything their way , As for painting motorcycle tank frames and other cycle parts I will only use the old tried and tested Cellulose paint systemes and there is a Anti-etherno Lacquer, and you can get to try My paint supplier, He as every thing you need so just try contacting 01234-355990, Nu-Agane Paints of Bedford or Hugs paints Ebay, hope this may help someone yours Anna J

Anna:

I don't know what you have been smoking but the statement about, "70% of all petrol is made from palm oil or sugar cane.....

Can you post some proof?

Mike

After lots of research on the unreliable internet I eventually bought some (poisonous) 2-pack in an aerosol rattle can to paint the silver panels on the side of my 16H tank. Catalyst is inside and released by a plunger in the base. Did it out of doors with carbon filter mask on a day with slight wind. Didn't smell a thing. Cautiously optimistic it will survive the odd splash. Unlike acrylic where carb blow back has wrecked the paint on front of the oil tank.

Product by

Riolettcustomaerosols.co.uk

I think Anna means the ethanol is produced from palm sugar.

dan

Just under 50% of the palm oil imported to Europe goes into bio diesel. Makes a mockery of checking the list of ingredients on biscuits to make sure they don't contain palm oil. Makes diesel even more of an environmental disaster. Source New Scientist editorial.

Previously michael_sullivan wrote:

Anna:

I don't know what you have been smoking but the statement about, "70% of all petrol is made from palm oil or sugar cane.....

Can you post some proof?

Mike

hello well for a start i do not smoke anything thing and do not drink alcohol before driving .the information given is about right has the worlds oil is running out, and so is the restorsies this old world is dying slowly we no longer can go on burning fossil fuels for much longer So were just sticking our heads in the sand when the writing is on the wall yours anna j

Oil running out? Propaganda, by the oil companies, to keep inflated prices. Most countries are restricting production, to obtain greater profits.

As for the banning of diesel, a good diesel engine is 30% more efficient than a similar petrol engine, of the same power. Over any given distance the diesel burns less fuel, so, does not produce higher emissions overall.