Is Europe a poor relation as regards service?

As a matter of interest , whatturned out to bethe actual problem with the gearbox after it was sorted ?

David,

Obviously Europe is a much larger market than the U.K so for a business to give a lower level of customer service to the bigger market would not make economic sense. I assume the level of service you've received is simply the level of service.

That more European owners have come forward reporting problems is probably due to they cover more miles than the U.K counterparts. No significant mileage apparently covered yet by North American owners.

There is also a number of owners who will never admit there could ever be a problem with any of the 961's.

Well, it is again me posting herefrom the mainland Europe; even though there are more 961 owners suffering from the situation in Switzerland (see my posts in Facts not speculation... for details). [Fact]

One reason for that there is not more respondence of other Swiss 961 owners â in spite of the more than 90 deliveries of 961s to my local dealer â is, that although Switzerland has four national languages, English is not one of themâ? [Fact]

I know one Swiss 961 owner personally who is following the posts here, but he is no NOC-member. In case that anyone likes to contact him, I could furnish his e-mail.

An interesting point is, that the Swiss market was delivered with 961s earlier than the UK one, which one can find out by reading the posts in other threads here about the long waiting times with orders from the UK. I had to wait âonlyâ 10 months for delivery of my 961 whilst others in the UK waited much longer. [Fact]

I guess, one reason for this could be that the Norton Factory needed a kind of test market first and with my local dealer as an internationally renowned person in motorcycle technic and mechanics in a country where English is not a native language; Stuart Garner may have found the ideal place for this. [Speculation]

The said dealer proposed several modifications to Norton Factory to improve technical problems (e.g. clutch modification due to rattling noise from primary drive), but the next series of bikes were delivered to him without these modifications. [Fact]

My local dealer executed work for warranty issues on my 961 without complications (see for details Absolute nightmare with a 2010 model), what means that he did not wait to have all (unnecessary?) paperwork done with Norton UK (see Daveâs post above) for the obvious warranty issues. In this manner, I did not have to spoil months of possible riding while things are sorted out on an administrative level. This is what I call ânot to abandon his customersâ?â [Fact]

The price my dealer pays now for his correctness towards his customers is that he is having the already mentioned troubles with Norton Factory. [Fact]

Most of the orders in Switzerland were done in the first months when distribution of 961s started here. May be, the after sales service is consuming too much time and with the âannoyingâ warranty issues too much money to be really looked after as it should beâ?? [Speculation]

I am very curious, how the after sales service will develop elsewhere. This may only be known when the driven mileages rise e.g. of 961s in North America.

In my opinion, one important reason for that Norton Factory is obviously providing better after sales service in the UK than here is, that the Factory itself is treating directly with their customers whereas in Switzerland third parties are doing this. In the UK Norton Factory canât avoid paying for warranty issues by hiding behind administrative paperwork and similar, what they obviously do with some dealers, apparently especially in countries where the negative echowould not bein English or at least not so good Englishâ? [Speculation]

I apologise for my bad Englishâ? [Fact]

By the way: Concerning gear failure, I had a very similar failure/repair than Dave experienced.

Raphael Vonaesch, Switzerland

Previously david_charlesworth wrote:

Previously raphael_vonaesch wrote:

Most of the orders in Switzerland were done in the first months when distribution of 961s started here. May be, the after sales service is consuming too much time and with the âannoyingâ warranty issues too much money to be really looked after as it should beâ?? [Speculation]

I apologise for my bad Englishâ? [Fact]

Raphael

No need to apologize for your English it is better than some English used by some native Englishspeakers , if anyone has a problem with it I am sure you would be more than happy for them to reply in German!

There will undoubtedly be a certain amount built into the price of a 961to cover warranty issues. Like any businessNorton has to stay within budget, but perhaps Norton has got it's sums wrong or hasusedfalse ecomomy bynot givingquaility controlthe priority it deserves and is unable to cover the costs of larger problems such as poor oil consumption and still stay within budget. Small items seem to be dealt with very efficiently.

David

Hi David, I had the same type of gearbox problem early on with my 961, it was hard to select gears. Eventually it stuck in 3rd gear, fortunately I was only a few miles from home. As I am in the UKNorton came and collected the bike the next day and it was sorted and returned within 5 days. The problem was due to the selector mechanism and I believe a new drum was fitted. I have done more than 5,000 miles since then with no other problems. The gearbox was tight from new and sometimes would jump out of gear if not selected firmly. I must admit I thought that this let the rest of the bike down and although it is fine now I had assumed that on later bikes this had been sorted. I think that the gearbox is manufactured in the USA, hopefully eventually they will use a UK supplied unit.

BTW although my bike was delivered early 2011 there were a number supplied in the UK in 2010 especially the SE version. I visited the factory in March 2010 and there were a number of completed bike and alot more (around 50+) complete except for the engine. This was when the engines were built outside and supply was unreliable, I believe that is when the decision was made to build in house.

Cheers, John Mc

Previously john_mcnicoll wrote:

Previously david_charlesworth wrote:

There will undoubtedly be a certain amount built into the price of a 961to cover warranty issues. Like any businessNorton has to stay within budget, but perhaps Norton has got it's sums wrong or hasusedfalse ecomomy bynot givingquaility controlthe priority it deserves and is unable to cover the costs of larger problems such as poor oil consumption and still stay within budget. Small items seem to be dealt with very efficiently.

David

The latter is not true for the warranty claims from my dealer against Norton UK. Many expenses of my dealer for (small?) items - like the repair of the gearbox failure I had - were up to now not reimbursed by the Norton Factory...

Hi David, I had the same type of gearbox problem early on with my 961, it was hard to select gears. Eventually it stuck in 3rd gear, fortunately I was only a few miles from home. As I am in the UKNorton came and collected the bike the next day and it was sorted and returned within 5 days. The problem was due to the selector mechanism and I believe a new drum was fitted. I have done more than 5,000 miles since then with no other problems. The gearbox was tight from new and sometimes would jump out of gear if not selected firmly. I must admit I thought that this let the rest of the bike down and although it is fine now I had assumed that on later bikes this had been sorted.

...

Cheers, John Mc

Well, obviously the gearbox problem was not sorted by Norton for the later bikes, even though they had to know that something is wrong, they delivered more bikes with the same design fault...

BTW: My dealer had sorted the gearbox problem within 2 or 3 hours. So that I just drank a few coffees, before I could drive off again.

But why Norton UK is not avowing for several warranty claims like this one and paying my dealer for the expenses?

Raphael

Previously raphael_vonaesch wrote:

Previously john_mcnicoll wrote:

Previously david_charlesworth wrote:

There will undoubtedly be a certain amount built into the price of a 961to cover warranty issues. Like any businessNorton has to stay within budget, but perhaps Norton has got it's sums wrong or hasusedfalse ecomomy bynot givingquaility controlthe priority it deserves and is unable to cover the costs of larger problems such as poor oil consumption and still stay within budget. Small items seem to be dealt with very efficiently.

David

The latter is not true for the warranty claims from my dealer against Norton UK. Many expenses of my dealer for (small?) items - like the repair of the gearbox failure I had - were up to now not reimbursed by the Norton Factory...

Hi David, I had the same type of gearbox problem early on with my 961, it was hard to select gears. Eventually it stuck in 3rd gear, fortunately I was only a few miles from home. As I am in the UKNorton came and collected the bike the next day and it was sorted and returned within 5 days. The problem was due to the selector mechanism and I believe a new drum was fitted. I have done more than 5,000 miles since then with no other problems. The gearbox was tight from new and sometimes would jump out of gear if not selected firmly. I must admit I thought that this let the rest of the bike down and although it is fine now I had assumed that on later bikes this had been sorted.

...

Cheers, John Mc

Well, obviously the gearbox problem was not sorted by Norton for the later bikes, even though they had to know that something is wrong, they delivered more bikes with the same design fault...

BTW: My dealer had sorted the gearbox problem within 2 or 3 hours. So that I just drank a few coffees, before I could drive off again.

But why Norton UK is not avowing for several warranty claims like this one and paying my dealer for the expenses?

Raphael

Hallo everybody,

whaÅ? s concerning the excessive oil consumption of my NC 961 CR, it was discovered by the mechanics by Swiss dealer, that the cylinders are oversized, therefor they must be re-honed and larger diameter pistons and rings must be fabricated to fit re-honed cylinders. That all due to the lack of cooperation from Norton factory, which is not supplying the mentioned dealer with spares and does not reimburse the expenses for warranty repairs.

And because I want to ride the bike right from the beginning of the season, I must agree with the above mentioned solution, what can adversly affect my warranty rights. But when Norton is not interested in cooperation with the dealer in the matter of warranty claims and I do not intend to waste my preciouse time, that is the only way for me, how to get the bike on the road.

Gabriel

P.S.

I think, many prospective customers of Norton are reading the discussions on NOC forum and will take the consequences.

And I appologize for my English, like Raphael has done.

The January copy of 'Classic Bike Guide' has an article on a Swiss built Triton which took a 961 and replaced the engine with that of a Triumph Thruxton EFI ' because the engine and transmission have thrown up a few major flaws'.

Mr. Garner should be very disturbed at such statements which do tend to reinforce complaints aired on this message board.

Previously gabriel_vyskocil wrote:

Hallo everybody,

whaÅ? s concerning the excessive oil consumption of my NC 961 CR, it was discovered by the mechanics by Swiss dealer, that the cylinders are oversized, therefor they must be re-honed and larger diameter pistons and rings must be fabricated to fit re-honed cylinders. That all due to the lack of cooperation from Norton factory, which is not supplying the mentioned dealer with spares and does not reimburse the expenses for warranty repairs.

And because I want to ride the bike right from the beginning of the season, I must agree with the above mentioned solution, what can adversly affect my warranty rights. But when Norton is not interested in cooperation with the dealer in the matter of warranty claims and I do not intend to waste my preciouse time, that is the only way for me, how to get the bike on the road.

Gabriel

P.S.

I think, many prospective customers of Norton are reading the discussions on NOC forum and will take the consequences.

And I appologize for my English, like Raphael has done.

I am responding here to a few posts of Terry Woods' thread My 961 Sport, because it is better placed with the subject in this thread here.

Just allow me to place some final comments on this topic as answers to the posts of Paul, Terry and Bob.

Previously paul_baddeley wrote:

...I have always in life passed on facts that I know are true, and if I had an issue with any item I had purchased, or the company I had purchased it from would not pursue them in public till all avenues of satisfaction had been explored even if it meant chucking it in a van and presenting it at the front door.

Paul, the last part is really bringing it to the point. It is quite a long way to take my bike from Switzerland to Donington by van... Believe me; my dealer is trying very hard to clear up the very unsatisfying situation with the Norton Factory. Additionally, I have my contract with my dealer and not with Norton UK. This means that my dealer has to take care as first party for all the issues of his customers. Let me remember that Norton UK were publicly attacking in another thread of this forum the reputation of Fritz W. Egli and his team. Actually that post of Mr Kynnersley (Norton) was the reason that I decided for the membership of the NOC and started posting here. Once again: It is extremely unfair of Norton to come up with those unproved allegations against my local dealer.

Previously terry_woods wrote:

...I've been in the same position myself trying to start my own business with nothing but a few quid and loads of passion trying to fend off the doom mongers. ... I really am sorry for those that had a bad experience with the first bikes but give the Norton team a chance to put things right and build on what they have created, but oopps this just isn't British is it.

Terry, also you are mentioning an important point. To start up a big business like building a new motorcycle, it may not be enough to have a few quid. It is important to have enough stock to deal with and only fair to avow and pay for warranty issues for those who have/had their bad experiences with the first bikes. The latter has to be part of putting things right along with the necessary technical improvements...

Previously bob_parsons wrote:

Terry, it is not a question of if "you" have done your homework ! The tactic is just to inject negative comments into every single post causing as much trouble for Norton as possible ! You were simply addressed because it is your post.

I tried to give a possible answer to a question in Terry's thread, but it should have been given here in this thread instead, where it would have been better placed. Bob, I don't know if you are trying to pin this "tactic" on me. But if so, you can be assured that it is not my purpose - and as an owner of a 961 would not make any sense at all - to cause Norton trouble. My only purpose is to share my experiences with other 961 owners and I have to admit that I am very disappointed by Norton's policy over here but had the faint hope that Norton would at least take the chance to take a stance on one or the other issue...

Raphael, Switzerland