1931 CS1 valves

Previously wrote:

Can anyone tell me what length the valves of an early CS1 should be? I have tried using the slightlylater Inter ones but they are too long. This particular CS1 still used coil springs unlike the later Inter which uses Hairpin springs.

Tony

Hello Tony

I am restoring a 1938 CS1. According to my various parts lists from 1930 to 1939, CS1's all had coil springs, and when the Inter came out in the early thirties (not listed in my 1930 parts list, but model 30 is in my 1935 list, so sometime between those dates!) the Inter shared the same valves, but with hairpin springs. In the early thirties CS1 coil springs were peculiar to that model, but later on became the same as ES2.

To complicate my own restoration, for some reason the original head on my machine was converted to take hairpin springs in 1953 - an original invoice for all the partsfrom Norton came with the bike. As this is now part of the machine's history, and involved a machined fin,I have kept this set-up.

If you want new valves and / or guides made, or any other work done on the head, (or any other cammy engineering), get in touch with Stu Rogers, 01945 585116. My cylinder head had a worn exhaust valve seating, Stu made up an oversize valve, and fitted new guides.

Regards

Roger Hainsworth

Hello Tony,

CS1 engine top endsare a bit of a minefield (at leastfor my age one, 1938) to say the least. Inters usedjust cylinder head sleeve nuts, (with thick washers under them),with the cam box sitting on top of the hex sleeve.My CS1 has extra spacers that sit on top of the nuts, that even Stu Rogers thought were not original, until I showed him that they werein the parts list as CS1 only, and they also had the original satin chrome finish that Norton used.The total lenght of the nut and spacers on CS1 is less than theInter sleeve nut on its own. Cam box is shared by both Inter & CS1, barrel & headfor CS1are different part numbers to the Inter ones, and so it goes on!

Anglesbetween the valves and rocker arms are important,(i.e. valve lenght) if wrong the rockers can damage the cam box. Also theadjustable oil retaining (ish!) pads that bear on the rockers can wearan eccentric on the rockers, and may need building up & re-profiling to make thetop endsomewhere near oil tight. Although I have a sound background in engineering, I handed the whole top end to Stuart to recondition, as he knows exactly what is required.

If I can help in any other way (my restoration is now at the final assembly stage) my e-mail is roger@grandiflora.co.uk, to save filling up the message board!

Regards

Roger

"If I can help in any other way (my restoration is now at the final assembly stage) my e-mail is.... to save filling up the message board!"

Please chaps, fill up the message board. It's all interesting stuff, even for side-valve owners !

Previously wrote:

"If I can help in any other way (my restoration is now at the final assembly stage) my e-mail is.... to save filling up the message board!"

Please chaps, fill up the message board. It's all interesting stuff, even for side-valve owners !

Sorry Rich. Havn't been on the board for a while. I also have some info on the 'soft' 2 pack paint you used on your 16H, and also a plating company that does a good copy, and fabulous quality, of the Norton satin chrome. Want it on here, or to your e-mail?

Roger

Hi Tony

My engine has all the original sleeve nuts & spacers, re-satin chromed,but has not been re-built yet, the top end is still a loose assly back from Stuart. The cylinder head sleeve nuts are 3-9/32" long, with 17/32" of that as hexagon. One small complication is that Stu insisted that there should be washers under the sleeve nuts where they bear down on the head (although washers are not listed in my parts list, and were not on my engine when I stripped it), so my set up now has 1/8" thick washers which Stu made, that sit in the cast recess in the head, and effectively lift the rocker box up another 1/8".

The rocker box spacers that sit on top of the sleeve nuts are 3/4" long, with an outside diameter of 11/16", I.D. just over 3/8" for the 3/8" rocker box bolts.

After all this, I have just found amongst all the 'stuff' I have accumulated, a copy of 'Standard Valves Ltd' valve catalogue for 1939, giving all sorts of dimensions.It lists1928/ 1931 CS1, and all other Nortons from '23 -'38.Valve length is measured 'under head' i.e. from the smaller of the two diameters of the seating face to the stem end. Your original measurement should be 4-3/32". My '38 CS1 is listed as 4-15/32", which corresponds to the overall 4-1/2" my valves are, along withyour new ones, which, it seems,are longer than they should be.

Perhaps make up & fit a rough 'dummy' valve to the right dimensions, & see if all of the other bits fall into place?

Hopethis helps.

Roger

Hi Tony

My engine has all the original sleeve nuts & spacers, re-satin chromed,but has not been re-built yet, the top end is still a loose assly back from Stuart. The cylinder head sleeve nuts are 3-9/32" long, with 17/32" of that as hexagon. One small complication is that Stu insisted that there should be washers under the sleeve nuts where they bear down on the head (although washers are not listed in my parts list, and were not on my engine when I stripped it), so my set up now has 1/8" thick washers which Stu made, that sit in the cast recess in the head, and effectively lift the rocker box up another 1/8".

The rocker box spacers that sit on top of the sleeve nuts are 3/4" long, with an outside diameter of 11/16", I.D. just over 3/8" for the 3/8" rocker box bolts.

After all this, I have just found amongst all the 'stuff' I have accumulated, a copy of 'Standard Valves Ltd' valve catalogue for 1939, giving all sorts of dimensions.It lists1928/ 1931 CS1, and all other Nortons from '23 -'38.Valve length is measured 'under head' i.e. from the smaller of the two diameters of the seating face to the stem end. Your original measurement should be 4-3/32". My '38 CS1 is listed as 4-15/32", which corresponds to the overall 4-1/2" my valves are, along withyour new ones, which, it seems,are longer than they should be.

Perhaps make up & fit a rough 'dummy' valve to the right dimensions, & see if all of the other bits fall into place?

Hopethis helps.

Roger

Roger, the chrome info might well be of interest to others on the forum. My incompetent paint dabblings probably aren't but I'd still be interested to know what's going wrong.

Does your Standard Valves catalogue list the valves for the 16H, 1937 and 1938 motor types, inclusive of materials or just sizes ? I believe that collet locations differed. Were the Big 4 valves for the same dates identical to the 16H ?

Could you also confirm if they list different parts for in. and ex. ? WD lists seem to but I can't tell the difference !

Thanks,

Rich.

Hi Tony

This is my second attempt to post this, so it may be repeated.

Total lenght of my sleeve nut hex. and spacer, i.e. distance between head and rocker box is 1 1/4". If I use the thick washers that Stuart made to go under the sleeve nuts that will add another 1/8". The washers were not on the complete (not running) engine before I stripped it. This may affect the clearance on the vertical shaft oldham couplings - I will find out when the engine is re-built.

All this may be hypothetical - my various parts lists give 3 different head part numbers and 2 different rocker box numbers between 1930 and 1939 - I suspect yours are different to my 1938 model.

Running out of time ,will answer the other queries in the next couple of days.

Regards

Roger