Is there a 650 and 650SS? (Dominator)
If there are 2 types will the 650SS have SS stamped with the engine serial number?
Thanks in advance for any advice.
The early 650 had on the back of the engine above the breather a stamped "65" there were also "65C" then around 63, the shop number had "650C" or "650SS".
I don't recall any having SS as part of the engine number... only code 18
The engine no stamped on my 650SS crankcase is 18SS1126xx but the frame doesn't have the SS stamped as part of the frame no.
Same applies for my 99SS. The engine no is 14SS 980xx
Thank you for the information.
I have looked at an 88SS and 650SS but neither had SS on the engine number.
So I declined to purchase even though advertised as SS models.
The engine number on my -68 is 18SS 123xxx
The model history on this site says there was a 'short lived 650' (single carb) in 1962 in standard and 'De Luxe' forms alongside the 650SS before the 650SS became the norm. Just as the 88 overlapped with the 88SS from 1961 (when the 88SS appeared) to 1963 (when the 88 was withdrawn).
The De Luxe (with fairings) didn't have twin carbs in either case.
So the answer to your question is - it depends on the date, and also if it had a fairing.
Can I determine if it’s a 650SS from the engine number?
The machine I’m considering doesn’t have a fairing or rev counter.
It is twin carb.
Can I determine if it’s a 650SS from the engine number?
The early 650 Records are a real mess and very difficult to interpret. If your engine is post October 1961 then generally the numbers recorded in the Records are clearer and differentiate between the Standard 650, DeLuxe 650 and SS models sold in the UK.
The stick in the wheel are the exported versions of the 650. By 1962 you had small silver tank bikes with high bars being sold as the 6500SS but alongside would be blue or red large tank (99 style) models known as the Manxman Mk 2. Plus ........often in the same showroom would be a standard silver tank, black frame 650SS in the style more familiar in the UK.
Check out the attachments for choice of models. Not included is the later Norton Mercury 650.
just to add to the confusion my bike has '650ss' and below that '733' stamped behind the barrels on the crankcase with the standard 100151 and 18 (just offset) on the side below the barrels, the bike has all its original numbers so its the original engine, its build date was Sept 61.
Hi Robert..........the factory Records indicate that the 4 machines listed as built prior to your Norton were all 650SS machines. But as I mentioned earlier the data is totally bonkers in places and shows these 4 bikes shipped off a week after yours. Whereas my bike 100174 but E/N 722 was actually shipped out of the factory a week before yours.
Most of the Nortons in this October dispatched batch had Chrome Guards and Blue Tanks. Roughly half are designated as Engine Model 18 and the rest as Engine Model 18SS. Strangest of all is the greater majority did not get registered for road use for 5 more months. My bike started life on the road as a Model 18 with an Essex owner and yours also as a Model 18 with a Worcester rider. I am not sure if our two Nortons were Standard 650 bikes with the Chrome and Blue Tanks. Some all Blue 650s, including the frame, were called the Manxman 650 Mk 2 and sold both in the USA and Europe but not the UK.
I need to check and confirm but believe that by October 1961 all the UK bikes had 18SS stamped on the front cases followed by the Engine/Frame Number.
Hi, can anyone advise if the attached images are a genuine 650SS?
The first one only has a 4 digit number. Is it legally registered and, if so, how? What does the frame say?
The second looks correct. With the correct headlight, speedo etc.
The third is of course a different bike, and appears to be an 88SS, with 8 fin barrel, two concentrics, downdraft head. It has a number not far from mine. Mine has prefix 88SS, and that has suffix 122 (for 500cc). Whether significant I do not know.
I think it should have the same headlamp shell at the first, although that may be correct if it's a bit later than mine. Maybe that was changed when they added a rev counter?
It has a nice looking competition mag, which suggests 88SS. Why would the first owner have bought a 'standard' 88 and add a competition mag, when not all the SS bikes had them? If he was that keen, surely he would have bought an SS model?
We cannot know what pistons and cam it has. Also the siamesed pipes may be modern.
I'd say it was an 88SS, and I don't see how anyone could prove otherwise. Does a record check confirm it?
I attached an incorrect picture. 88SS was not intended.
However the serial number of the 650SS does not appear to be correct so I will not proceed.
Thank you all for your assistance.
Steve... the usual place for the number is at front left ( where that 88SS has them) not rear left. I wonder if there are marks there where the number used to be? It seems odd to restamp in a totally different place. So it won't be a 'matching number' machine. But if a PO renewed crank cases for some reason, that in itself isn't sinister. Does the V5C have numbers to match frame and the motor it has now?
The photo of the alleged 1962 Norton 650 shows only the Shop Engine Number. It looks something like 1518 which would put it within the 1962 production range for this model. As Dave says the proper serial number should be stamped at the front left side of the crankcase next to the camshaft end. If the shop number is something like 1518 then the E/N is likely to begin with 100***.
Hello everyone. The later, Plumstead built, 650SS and 88SS did have the engine model type included as part of the engine number stampings on the left hand crankcase just under the cylinder barrel. Accordingly you will find 18SS/123456/P or 122SS/123654/P for instance with the P signifying the dreaded Matchless connection of the Plumstead, Woolwich factory. These models also were not usually stamped at the back of the case by the breather connection with the model or shop number. To my knowledge the 99SS never had 14SS as part of its engine number. I have had a few and they always have 14 on the lhs of the case and 99SS at the rear near the breather. Cheers and keep rooting, Howard
I am inching along. Thank you for the help so far,
This shows the correct front left position on crankcase with engine number 18 102607
I was expecting to see SS stamped with the engine number 18 102607.
Something like 18SS 102607.
Or is 650SS on rear left of crankcase correct?
It is beginning to look ok to me.
Steve regardless of its type its an interesting looking machine. Plenty of user/rider mods. Head fin damage dressed, drilled fins are common handyman mods, not sure what the rocker spindle cover "adjusters" are about...
Exhaust sensor take off bolt? oil tap and electronic ignition all point out an enthusiasts intent on improving his road going machine. Whether it be an SS or not due to the changes the base value would equal out. Its only if you want to make it back into a genuine SS to improve the value will it matter.
Looks like a genuine one to me. Unusual to see the big bore exhaust pipes on a 650 - does it accelerate ok ? Good luck, Howard
The rocker sideplate "adjusters" are an RGM fix for loose spindles.
hello, early 650s was the Manxman 650 came first my one is 18 95069 288 shop built December 1960,
Hello, big bore 1inch.5/8ths exhausts were the first to be used No longer available has there not made anymore, only the late exhausts witch most do not fit right, even Armourers exhausts does not fit right, nor do Wassell exhausts I have no found a good copy of exhaust pipes yet for early 650, Nor as the early silencers ever been made by the aftermarket boys there to hard for them to copy, only The craftsmen at Bracebridge street could make them Not made since 1961 And too hard for this Club to have them made as well yours Anna J
The numbers on my 650ss engine are 104130 , model 18ss,
shop registration number ( 650 ss) 1883.
According to factory records supplied to Kings (Oxford ) Luton on 4/9/1962 .
Hope this is of some help.