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16h electrical replacement

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Hi, I am new to the site so hello everyone.

I have just go a 1943 16h in a tatty condition to find that there is no harness and no regulator plus other bits.

So before I start planning the rebuild of the electrical system, I thought it prudent to ask the combined knowledge of the owners club, if there is anything I have to get to improve the system?

Should I use a solid state reg instead of the standard one?

Is there anything I should be aware of before I cock it up completely?

I have purchased a new Lucas harness horn, kill switch and a MCR2 reg (new reproduction) to start with....any help would be great.

Nigel

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If I remember correctly, originally the 16H had a MCR1 and the short 40W generator. My 16H had a MCR2 and the longer 60W generator when I bought it. Sadly the contact points in the reg welded together, killing the dyno and blowing up the battery. Luckily at daytime, so no problem finding my way home. Before Alan answers your question, I will certainly replace the reg with a solid state unit. It can be placed in the toolbox for better cooling or into a MCR2. Still has not found a dyno for it though. Noted that there is both clockwise and anticlockwise generators. When you install the system, triple check wiring so that you are absolutely certain that it's right. Doublechecking is not enough. In mine, field and armature leads was mixed up inside the dyno! Adding a fuse in the lead to the battery is a wise update.

Mike

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Some of the repro MCR2s are not great quality so a solid state alternative may be a wise investment. Similarly, many so-called correct wiring harnesses are completely wrong and I find it far better to make them from scratch - decent cables etc are widely available, and it's quite a satisfying activity (as long as you don't use those horrible pre-insulated crimp terminals of course!)

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Previously Mikael Ridderstad wrote:

If I remember correctly, originally the 16H had a MCR1 and the short 40W generator. My 16H had a MCR2 and the longer 60W generator when I bought it. Sadly the contact points in the reg welded together, killing the dyno and blowing up the battery. Luckily at daytime, so no problem finding my way home. Before Alan answers your question, I will certainly replace the reg with a solid state unit. It can be placed in the toolbox for better cooling or into a MCR2. Still has not found a dyno for it though. Noted that there is both clockwise and anticlockwise generators. When you install the system, triple check wiring so that you are absolutely certain that it's right. Doublechecking is not enough. In mine, field and armature leads was mixed up inside the dyno! Adding a fuse in the lead to the battery is a wise update.

Mike

Hi Mike,

Many thanks for the advise. I will get a solid state and see if I can fit it into the MCR2, try to keep the original look. Sorry to hear about your dyno! how can you tell the difference between a 40 and 60W?

As its a 1943/44 I assume it will be a 40W. I was hoping the electrics would be simple as it a old bike?!?! but I see nothing changes :)

Nigel

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Previously ian_soady wrote:

Oh, by the way, here's nowhere to connect a kill switch on a 16H!

Hi Ian,

Many thanks for the advise. My plan is to used the basic harness as a pattern and build on that for the routing and layout.

This might sound stupid (not unusual for me) but is there a way to fit a type key arrangement for security or how did they do it in the WD models? like in the cars they would remove the ignition rotor?

Sorry ignore the kill switch comment! been working on 1980's bikes to date, so this is the first time I have braved an old WD bike.

Nigel

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Main difference is that the E3L 60W dynamo is longer. As the 16H was built during a considerable time (33years), there is some differences during the years. https://www.wdnorton.nl/Electrical_system.htm

I've been a dispatch rider once, and our main concern was to get them start them easily, never a problem killing them. The 16H is a fairly easy starting machine using period practice. Never thought that anyone enough used to old british bikes to start them would run away on a 16H.

"The only stupid question is the one never asked"

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As Ian says - you don't need a kill switch. Just decompress. And you can't switch the mag off. You'll need to carry a chain if you want to deter the opportunistic.

Just one thing - you'll see a variety of values for ignition timing. Piston drop measurement is as good as anything on a long stroke engine with one big pot. And err on the over-advance side. You can always retard it a bit on the lever, but you cannot increase the advance beyond where you've set it. It will be very sluggish if not advanced far enough. And whatever people allege about modern fuel, it's a lot better than Pool Petrol.

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Previously Mikael Ridderstad wrote:

Main difference is that the E3L 60W dynamo is longer. As the 16H was built during a considerable time (33years), there is some differences during the years. https://www.wdnorton.nl/Electrical_system.htm

I've been a dispatch rider once, and our main concern was to get them start them easily, never a problem killing them. The 16H is a fairly easy starting machine using period practice. Never thought that anyone enough used to old british bikes to start them would run away on a 16H.

"The only stupid question is the one never asked"

Hi Mikael, my Uncle was a dispatch rider in ww2 and rode a BSA, he always said its never about the starting the dam bikes, it the stopping you have to worry about :)

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Previously David Cooper wrote:

As Ian says - you don't need a kill switch. Just decompress. And you can't switch the mag off. You'll need to carry a chain if you want to deter the opportunistic.

Just one thing - you'll see a variety of values for ignition timing. Piston drop measurement is as good as anything on a long stroke engine with one big pot. And err on the over-advance side. You can always retard it a bit on the lever, but you cannot increase the advance beyond where you've set it. It will be very sluggish if not advanced far enough. And whatever people allege about modern fuel, it's a lot better than Pool Petrol.

Good to know, thanks.

Note to self: Make a handle for the old drive chain :)

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Don't shure if Norton WD16H was more reliable than a BSA M20 but mine has only stopped once. Out of petrol, must be due to modern fuel.

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Above has some good info but a few anomolies (crap word-crap spell checker) Clockwise and Anticlock dynamos-not quite. The direction for rotation to get electricity is down to the internal wiring-it can be altered. Although some dynamos have a direction arrow on them this was put there by the factory who made the D for a specific machine. That was 60 yrs ago! So how do we do it-On AOServices.co.uk we have some information under 'Using the V Reg with a 'Bosch' type Dynamo.' This covers the direction issue. The V Reg is an electronic Dynamo regulator we have been selling for over 20 yrs.

I also do a wiring kit for Dynamo bikes and now even an 'improved' version for 6V, this has next size up wiring to save volts drop which is always the problem at 6V.

Now 'kill switch for magnetoes' we also sell these.........but they can only kill magnetoes with a handle bar kill switch ie electrical off. but at the same time they 'open circuit' the main battery feed, hence saving your battery if little fingers leave the lights on or as happens your stop light gets stuck on. Yes fit a fuse to the main battery feed.

 


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